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    Moderated By: claudio
    Agoraquest Forum Index » » MD/CD/SACD
      
    DVP-NS3100ES SACD via HDMI? Dashboard
    Replies: 13 | Views: 3,062
    Last Reply: October 8, 2007, 4:21 am

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    Members below have participated in this thread
    NiteHawk | Maxxwire | Toli | SniperCane | maverick11359 | RWetmore | OPCAR |
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    Author DVP-NS3100ES SACD via HDMI?
    RWetmore

    Rank: Sonyphile


    Joined: Dec 02, 2006
    Posts: 496
    From: New Jersey

      Posted: 2007-10-02 23:51

    Quick question - does this player or the NS9100ES support SACD playback via HDMI? Thank You.




       


    NiteHawk

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Oct 25, 2001
    Posts: 2638
    From: Poughkeepsie, New York

      Posted: 2007-10-03 00:27



    The NS9100ES provides SACD playback via i.LINK (IEEE 1394).  The NS3100ES has something called multichannel discrete 5.1 channel output for SACD.  The only reference to HDMI is for upscaling video.  


       
    maverick11359

    Rank: Sony King


    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 1522
    From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA

      Posted: 2007-10-03 00:44

    G'day RWetmore ,
                           No player supports SACD playback via HDMI that I know off.
           SACD multichannel discrete 5.1 is purely analog,iEEE or  ilLINK and Denon link on Denon gear supprt digital interface of SACD's.
           DVD-A's can support stereo HI REZ 96/24 in PCM stereo through optical Toslink.

          cheers maverick


           
    Toli
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Master


    Joined: Oct 20, 2003
    Posts: 8509
    From: Winthrop Harbor, IL USA

      Posted: 2007-10-03 07:20









    On 2007-10-03 00:27, NiteHawk wrote:

    The NS9100ES provides SACD playback via i.LINK (IEEE 1394).  The NS3100ES has something called multichannel discrete 5.1 channel output for SACD.




    RWetmore,

    This is the main reason that I switched from the NS3100ES to the NS9100ES. For SACD playback on the NS3100ES, you must use the 5.1 analog outputs. It does sound pretty good, so you shouldn't be disappointed.

    Toli
    KF-50WE610 w/Salamander Archetype TV65, STR-DA7100ES, DVP-NS9100ES, DIRECTV H20, Panamax 5510-PRO ACRegenerator & M1500-UPS, XBOX; Klipsch: KSF-10.5(2), KSF-C5, KSF-S5(4-2), KSW-15; Stuart's Glass Toslinks, LAT V1-5, Harmony 880 Pro

    [ This message was edited by: Toli on 2007-10-03 11:12 ]


         
    RWetmore

    Rank: Sonyphile


    Joined: Dec 02, 2006
    Posts: 496
    From: New Jersey

      Posted: 2007-10-03 08:48

    I didn't think it did, but wanted to check.

    BTW - I think the PS3 supports SACD playback via HDMI, but I could be wrong.


       
    Toli
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Master


    Joined: Oct 20, 2003
    Posts: 8509
    From: Winthrop Harbor, IL USA

      Posted: 2007-10-03 11:16

    RWetmore,

    SACDs on the PS3; it seems even though the PlayStation 3 has the ability to playback the discs, it has no multi-channel analog audio connection to handle the multi-channel tracks. So it seems, from what I have read, that one would need an HDMI version v1.3 capable receiver to receive the SACD audio from the PS3 via HDMI.

    Toli

    -----------------
    KDL-52XBR6 w/Salamander Archetype TV65,STR-DA7100ES,BDP-S1,DVP-NS9100ES,DIRECTV HR21,Panamax 5510-PRO ACRegenerator & M1500-UPS;Klipsch:KSF-10.5(2),KSF-C5,KSF-S5(4-2),KSW-15; glass toslinks,Pure Silver i-Link & HDMI,PS3,Harmony 880 Pro


         
    OPCAR

    Rank: Sonyphile


    Joined: Dec 23, 2006
    Posts: 442
    From: Belgrade, Serbia - Europe

      Posted: 2007-10-03 15:53


    • Member Quote

    On 2007-10-03 11:16, Toli wrote:
    So it seems, from what I have read, that one would need an HDMI version v1.3 capable receiver to receive the SACD audio from the PS3 via HDMI.

    Toli


    Toli -I think exactly the same.


    Danijel


       
    SniperCane

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: May 16, 2004
    Posts: 64
    From: Orlando

      Posted: 2007-10-03 22:26










    On 2007-10-03 11:16, Toli wrote:
    RWetmore,

    SACDs on the PS3; it seems even though the PlayStation 3 has the ability to playback the discs, it has no multi-channel analog audio connection to handle the multi-channel tracks. So it seems, from what I have read, that one would need an HDMI version v1.3 capable receiver to receive the SACD audio from the PS3 via HDMI.

    Toli




    Untrue.  The 7100ES is not HDMI 1.3 compliant, and handles multichannel SACD beautifully from my PS3. Just like with the new surround codecs available on Blu-Ray, if the connected reciever is unable to decode the bit stream, the PS3 converts the data to 5.1 LPCM and then sends it through.

    The results are outstanding, and are indescernable, imo , to stand alone players using analog outputs.

    The PS3 is an incredible machine.  And Sony supports it like no other piece of equipment I've seen.  Since I bought mine in May, there have been atleast 5 firmware upgrades that have improved the machines ability to handle the ever changing landscape that has been Hi-Def media. It's now capable of 1080p/24, up converts SD DVD's better than any of Sony's current crop of standalone BluRay players, and by Christams will have the ability to decode DTS-MA.

    Sony:KDS-R50XBR1-SXRD, STR-DA7100ES, PS3, RDR-VX500, CDP-CE535 DirecTV:HR20 HD DVR Harmony: 880 Athena: AS-F2, AS-C1, AS-R1, AS-P400 Stuart's: Glass Toslink Better Cable: (3) HDMI Monster: HTS 3600

    [ This message was edited by: SniperCane on 2007-10-03 22:28 ]


       
    maverick11359

    Rank: Sony King


    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 1522
    From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA

      Posted: 2007-10-04 05:19

    G'day SniperCane,
                      It sounds fantastic and it sounds like your recieving a great sound.
                HDMI 1.3 supports seperate digital clocks for audio and video .Where as HDMI 1 and 1.2 don't,the signal path isn't as clean as purely analog because of the video fuzz that dirtys the signal path,  only possibly 1.3 may come close .I'm yet to hear IEEE link or Denon link (digital) that comes close to my personal analog connections for SACD's.
            The only fair comparison therefore would be to connect multichannel outputs using high quality RCA's interconnetcs($200 min.each)to asure minimum quality signal transfer  up against HDMI 1.3 (a high HDMI quality cable ,at similar price or build).That would be an interesting A-B test.

            P.S does the  7100ES confirm SACD signal receiving via the HDMI or the PS3 confirm , it's not downmixing  to  5.1 LPCM .

         cheers maverick



           
    SniperCane

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: May 16, 2004
    Posts: 64
    From: Orlando

      Posted: 2007-10-04 17:12

    maverick,

    Your post got me thinking.  The PS3 is HDMI 1.3 compliant. So in my line of thniking it should output exactly as you say with the seperate digital clocks for both sudio and video. Question does it output that way if it detects that the 7100ES isn't 1.3??

    As far what gets flagged on the reciever........ I have the PS3 set to output only LPCM for the sole purpose of decoding Dolby True HD internally and sending it along to the 7100ES.  I haven't tried to send SACD via bitstream, but, when I get home, I'll try it and see what happens.

    Whatever the case, my initial desire to acquire a NS9100ES has wained a bit due to the incredible versatility of the PS3.  Not that I wouldn't give it serious thought if the right deal came my way. But the desire to drop another $900 for a new one just for it's i-Link capability, just isn't there.  Or feasible. Sony:KDS-R50XBR1-SXRD, STR-DA7100ES, PS3, RDR-VX500, CDP-CE535 DirecTV:HR20 HD DVR Harmony: 880 Athena: AS-F2, AS-C1, AS-R1, AS-P400 Stuart's: Glass Toslink Better Cable: (3) HDMI Monster: HTS 3600

    [ This message was edited by: SniperCane on 2007-10-05 00:41 ]


       
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2007-10-05 01:48

    • Member Quote

    On 2007-10-04 05:19, maverick11359 wrote:

    HDMI 1.3 supports seperate digital clocks for audio and video. Where as HDMI 1 and 1.2 don't.



    Maverick- Could you direct us to some more information and possibly the specs of the individuated Audio and Video Clocks that HDMI v1.3 uses?

    ~Maxx~

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    maverick11359

    Rank: Sony King


    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 1522
    From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA

      Posted: 2007-10-05 03:07






    On 2007-10-05 01:48, Maxxwire wrote:




    On 2007-10-04 05:19, maverick11359 wrote:

    HDMI 1.3 supports seperate digital clocks for audio and video. Where as HDMI 1 and 1.2 don't.





    Maverick- Could you direct us to some more information and possibly the specs of the individuated Audio and Video Clocks that HDMI v1.3 uses?

    ~Maxx~



     G'day maxx,
                 I don,t have a REFERENCE on hand at this point maybe you can find one faster I thought this had been discussd by us at Agora at lenght over the last 12 months,,,,Have I got it wrong ? Doesn't 1.3 support seperate clocks the only quick reference that comes to mind is your last at the below post which really isn't supporting 1.3,which states standard HDMI is muxed together:-





    Maxx quote:-
    Posted: 2007-08-16 12:30

    Having its Audio Clock muxed with its Video clock requiring PLL's to extract it makes HDMI such a totally compromised format that it only stands to reason that the quality of the interconnect would have little if any influence in making an improvement in the currently implemented versions of HDMI.

    ~Maxx~

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!





     Sorry dont really have time to research off on my Anniversary Weekend !

     cheers maverick



           
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2007-10-05 15:01

    Maverick- Have a great anniversary and we can discuss the HDMI v1.3 timing clock when you have more time.

    The only hint of a dedicated Audio Clock for the HDMI interface that I have come across so far that may possibly be adopted were concerning HDMI v1.3a where an Audio Rate Control feature would allow the adjustment of the audio clock rate using CEC Rate command.

    ~Maxx~



    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!

    -CLICK ON PIC FOR PiP-



    Masterful Setup is the Key to Amazing Audio Performance

    [ This message was edited by: Maxxwire on 2007-10-06 02:14 ]


         
    maverick11359

    Rank: Sony King


    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 1522
    From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA

      Posted: 2007-10-08 04:21






    On 2007-10-03 00:44, maverick11359 wrote:
    G'day RWetmore ,
                           No player supports SACD playback via HDMI that I know off.
           SACD multichannel discrete 5.1 is purely analog,iEEE or  ilLINK and Denon link on Denon gear supprt digital interface of SACD's.
           DVD-A's can support stereo HI REZ 96/24 in PCM stereo through optical Toslink.

          cheers maverick


     G'day guys,
           looks like I have to eat humble pie ,I was wrong ! Sorry!
       check out this article about HDMI :- http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:5bIGcX50bAIJ:www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/high_definition_multimedia_interface.cfm+HDMI+1.3+seperate+clocks&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=au
     

      Supported Audio Formats
    HDMI 1.3 added support for the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio lossless compression formats used with HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc. HDMI supports uncompressed audio, up to 8 channels at 192 Khz at up to 24 bit sampling rates. It also supports all compressed formats such as Dolby Digital and DTS audio. It also supports SACD audio and DVD-Audio (both of which are still competing formats for high fidelity audio). HDMI 1.3 added support for the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio lossless compression formats used with HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc.

    So to summarize..

    • Uncompressed (PCM) - PCM audio up to 8 channels at 24-bit sampling rates at a frequency of 192 Khz.
    • Compressed - Supports all the usual compressed formats; Dolby Digital 5.1 - 7.1, DTS etc.
    • SACD - HDMI supports up to 8 channels of one-bit audio used on Super Audio CDs.
    • DVD-Audio - Supports DVD Audio content since HDMI 1.1
    • Lossless - HDMI supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio
    HDMI 1.3 also added another feature, automatic audio syncing. This works by adjusting the audio processing times to remove lip sync problems. The problem arises due to the fact that video processing generally takes more time than the audio in a DTV. 

     cheers maverick 

     


           
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