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    Moderated By: Maxxwire
    Agoraquest Forum Index Amp/Receiver/Speakers/Connections/Cables
      
    7100es / HDMI / firmware versions / supported refresh rates Dashboard
    Replies: 21 | Views: 12,971
    Last Reply: December 2, 2007, 7:06 pm

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    Members below have participated in this thread
    Maxxwire | rb | jehill | LlamaLarry | yoong | Toli | fstark | Welwynnick | edconline | mbash | tfboy | Boxybrown | fanboyz | SNY-4ME | Tomix |
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    Author 7100es / HDMI / firmware versions / supported refresh rates
    tfboy

    Rank: Sony Buff


    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Posts: 12
    From: UK

      Posted: 2007-05-31 16:34

    Dear all,

    I wondered if anyone could put some input into this:

    I have a STR-DA7100ES which I love truly madly deeply for its sound performances. The combination of this amp with a cd / sacd source over i-link is truly awesome.

    However, I do have a few issues over HDMI, notably its ability to "handshake" at 1080P. I know it runs at 1080P, and I run it without any issues, connecting for example my HTPC or my PS3 via HDMI onto my VPL-VW50 Pearl 1080P projector.

    However, the amp does not say it is 1080P compliant. You have to "force" the PS3 to output 1080P over HDMI. And when you do it works fine.

    Now that I have firmware 1.80 on the PS3 which supports 24P playback, I was eager to try this via the amp. Unfortunately, I have the same issue: you cannot "force" 24P on the PS3 - there's just an "automatic" or "off" setting. When I set to auto, the picture on the Pearl is still a 1080/60P and not 1080/24P.

    For the other lucky people out there with 1080/24P and 60P display devices connected via HDMI through a 7100, would you mind confirming the refresh rates you obtain.

    I have the HDMI firmware update jig and software (fortunately, I have some good contacts inside Sony) and wondered if the more up-to-date firmware enables these resolutions.

    Thanks


            


    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14283
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2007-05-31 19:43

    Do you have the US/CAN version of the STRDA7100ES?  If so, there is a firmware update for "No Picture and Audio when connected via HDMI to certain TV/Monitor".  I have my doubts that it would help you.  Also, it appears that the only way that you can get it is to send the receiver to Sony.

    I have another question.  I know that 24p simulates movie film, but in what way is it superior to 60P?

    -----------------
    -John

    Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550 and AVD-LA2500PKG, consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer


       
    fanboyz

    Rank: Sony Addict


    Joined: Apr 15, 2007
    Posts: 237
    From: minnesota

      Posted: 2007-05-31 22:54



    1080p/60 fps is every second fame is doubled, while 1080/24fps is 96hz wich is every fame times four.
    It should only be better on paper, kind of like Dolby Tru-HD decoded by the player or the sound proscessor. The result is the same.


         
    mbash

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 8
    From: Sth Fremantle W Australia

      Posted: 2007-06-08 03:07

    tfboy,

    I'm sorry but I don't have anything to add to your 7100es issue, but can your 'good contacts inside Sony' say if the 5200es will be upgradable, via download, to decode the new high definition audio codecs? Indeed, your 7100es would be a candidate too.

    Regards, Maurice


       
    fanboyz

    Rank: Sony Addict


    Joined: Apr 15, 2007
    Posts: 237
    From: minnesota

      Posted: 2007-06-08 12:51

    mbash, I the new audio codecs can only be sent as LPCM. even with HDMI 1.3


         
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2007-06-08 14:09

    • Member Quote

    On 2007-06-08 12:51, fanboyz wrote: The new audio codecs can only be sent as LPCM. even with HDMI 1.3


    This will change once the Receivers have onboard decoders for the new Audio codecs.

    ~Maxx~

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    tfboy

    Rank: Sony Buff


    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Posts: 12
    From: UK

      Posted: 2007-06-09 05:55

    Well, finally managed to get the updated HDMI firmware loaded up. Still no joy

    So I've resorted to trying to force a 1080p output directly from my HTPC using powerstrip, but haven't had much luck yet I've posted on a couple of avforums, but will copy here in case anyone has any suggestions...

    ---------------------

    I'm running out of ideas here, chaps.

    The problem I have is that my Sony STR-DA7100ES receiver does not broadcast it can do 1080p through its HDMI connectors.

    Now if I plug my PS3 into the amp and then out of the amp to my pearl PJ and force 1080p mode in the PS3 settings, I get a cracking picture. So I know the amp CAN pass through 1080p if forced.

    The issue I have is with my HTPC which I use for HD-DVD playback. It has an nvidia 7950GT dual DVI (HDCP) compliant graphics card. If I plug this into my pearl directly, it will show that the monitor (Pearl) supports 24, 50 an 60p, no problem.

    As soon as I route the HDMI through the amp, because of the amp's limited 1080i capability, I only get an interlaced picture which looks shockingly bad

    So I thought I'd give Powerstrip a try.

    Installed Powerstrip, load up windows on the PC. As soon as I force a 1080p picture, whether 24, 50 or 60, I get a corrupt picture where the top half is fine, but the lower half is corrupt.

    Reference "wallpaper":

    Corrupt display:


    The Pearl seems happy with the signal it's getting: bringing up the setup menu clearly shows 1080/60p it's just the picture is corrupt.

    I have even tried connecting the PC to the Pearl directly, loaded up the 60p detected settings in powerstrip which is fine, no corruption and copied them to a text file which I saved. Then shut down the PC, reconnect via the amp, reboot the PC and load in the previously auto-detected 60p settings. Same corrupt picture

    I'm using the same cables so I can only see a software / incompatibility with when going through the receiver. However having the PS3 running at 1080p is fine. So I'm completely confused and at a loss.

    Just today, I flashed the HDMI firmware on my receiver to the latest version as the most recent one adds CV colour compatibility and I hoped they also tweaked the EDID data so the amp would say it can pass through 1080p, but alas, no. So it appears that Powerstrip or some other kind of software which allows you to force resolutions and refresh rates is the only solution.

    I've attached the timings I obtained from Pstrip when connected directly to the vpl-vw50 running progressive.

    Any suggestions please. I've run out of ideas

    -----------------
    Video: VPL-VW50 Pearl, HTPC for HD-DVD & SD, PS3 for BD :)
    Audio: STR-DA7100ES, Pio DV757Ai + i-link, MA R452MD fronts, CC350 centre, R90 rears x4, Servo 15 sub


            
    rb

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Mar 04, 2003
    Posts: 2035
    From: Canada

      Posted: 2007-06-09 17:17

    I'm not quite sure I understand. The 7100 should not play the role as you describe. It merely switches and routes a HDMI signal regardless of version. Why do you feel it's limited to 1080i? We play our BDPS1 and PS3 through it and have no problem getting a 1080P signal to our displays.

    -----------------
    rb

    I listen to music in StereO


         
    Toli
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Master


    Joined: Oct 20, 2003
    Posts: 8509
    From: Winthrop Harbor, IL USA

      Posted: 2007-06-09 22:31






    On 2007-06-09 17:17, rb wrote:
    We play our BDPS1 and PS3 through it and have no problem getting a 1080P signal to our displays.


    rb,

    People have been passing 1080p through the DA7100ES for awhile now. I wonder, why tfboy is having a problem?

    Toli


    -----------------
    KDL-52XBR6 w/Salamander Archetype TV65,STR-DA7100ES,BDP-S1,DVP-NS9100ES,DIRECTV HR21,Panamax 5510-PRO ACRegenerator & M1500-UPS;Klipsch:KSF-10.5(2),KSF-C5,KSF-S5(4-2),KSW-15; glass toslinks,Pure Silver i-Link & HDMI,PS3,Harmony 880 Pro


         
    SNY-4ME

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 59
    From:

      Posted: 2007-06-09 22:42

    I think he is trying to pass a different frame rate.

    Lyle


       
    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14283
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2007-06-10 11:50

    Probably 96Hz (1080p, 24 fps) instead of 60 Hz (1080p, 60fps).

    -----------------
    -John

    Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550 and AVD-LA2500PKG, consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer


       
    yoong

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: Oct 06, 2003
    Posts: 86
    From: Malaysia

      Posted: 2007-06-11 03:17

    You will get a smoother picture (firm like) if the video signal is output at 1080p 24fps as compared to 1080p 60fps. Only HD player will output 1080p 24fps, even that, currently only limited players can output it. Only with last month firmware update can PS3 output it at 24fps. The difference in PQ between 24fps and 60fps is substantial.

    tfboy,
    From the two video images, it appears, IMHO, that one of your component firmware might not be able to fully process the signal, thus causing the tearing at the bottom part of the image.I had similar tearing problem with 24fps output signal until I updated my external scaler firmware. Have you tried connecting the PS3 directly to the Pearl? I do not own a PS3 and my HD DVD player cannot output at 24pfs so I can't test it for you thru my 7100es.

    Yoong


    [ This message was edited by: yoong on 2007-06-11 05:06 ]


       
    tfboy

    Rank: Sony Buff


    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Posts: 12
    From: UK

      Posted: 2007-06-12 09:07

    OK, I'll try to clarify.

    My 7100 WILL pass 1080/60p from my Japanese PS3 through without any graphical problem whatsoever.

    However, if I go to the video settings of the PS3 and do an automatic HDMI configuration, it does not list the 1080p as a supported mode: it only says 480i, 720p, 1080i.

    If I plug the PS3 directly into the Pearl and do the same tests, I do get a 1080p mode available.

    I asked some people at Sony Technical support and they did admit that whilst the hardware can pass 1080p, it is not guaranteed / approved which is why 1080p is not listed as an available mode, i.e. the 7100 does not have 1080p in its EDID map / handshaking protocol with the sink (display device, i.e the Pearl).

    So whilst I can get around the official lack of 1080p with the PS3, I cannot do it with my HTPC because I don't have an option in the graphics card drivers to "force" 1080p; it just allows me to select what it detects to be supported resolutions, i.e. 1080/24i, 50i and 60i.

    Because of this, I ended up trying Powerstrip which is some software that allows you to generate and force your own timing signals. When I create what I believe is a perfectly valid 1080/60p, I get the lower half corrupted. As I do not get this with the PS3, there clearly are slightly different timing signals between what a PS3 outputs at 1080p and what I'm telling Powerstrip to output from my HTPC.

    The latest HDMI firmware on the 7100 adds support for features such as XV YCC colour compatibility. I had hoped that they also tweaked the EDID data to provide 1080p support, but clearly they haven't.

    I hope this makes sense.

    -----------------
    Video: VPL-VW50 Pearl, HTPC for HD-DVD & SD, PS3 for BD :)
    Audio: STR-DA7100ES, Pio DV757Ai + i-link, MA R452MD fronts, CC350 centre, R90 rears x4, Servo 15 sub


            
    rb

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Mar 04, 2003
    Posts: 2035
    From: Canada

      Posted: 2007-06-12 11:56

    It's starting to make sense.  The first thing that comes to my mind is whether your video card is HDCP compliant or not.


    rb

    I listen to music in StereO

    [ This message was edited by: rb on 2007-06-13 11:06 ]


         
    Boxybrown

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Jan 14, 2007
    Posts: 6
    From: Indiana

      Posted: 2007-06-13 09:24

    Hey tfboy,

    Not to get off topic cause I find this discussion very interesting.  I have a PS3 & 7100ES.  Where can I get this jig & firmware update?  What does the firmware exactly update?  Is this just for 7100ES outside the U.S.?  Should I contact Sony themselves (what dept. do I talk too) or call a local authorized repair center.  I'm not to keen on shipping my 7100ES if I don't have too.

    Thanks


       
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