|
Who's Online |
| Visitors: | 183 | | Members: | 2 |
| Total of: | 185 users |
| |
| Member | Logged | | Maxxwire | 71 min |  | | RedSquare | 6.7 min |  |
| Users will be removed if they logged out or are inactive for 35 minutes |
| Visitors: | 794 | | Members: | 1 |
| Total of: | 795 online users |
| November 14, 2012, 2:44 pm |
You are Anonymous user. Register for free by clicking here.
 Inbox
Log in to check your private message
|
|
 | |
 This thread topic spans 5 pages - You are currently on page 1
NEXT>> (1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ) |
|
|
| Author |
Black Diamond Racing Pyramid Cones |
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
 |  Posted: 2006-04-27 02:29
I installed a set of Mk 3 Black Diamond Racing Pyramid Cones between the Hybrid Sorbothane Decupled Granite Energy Sinks and each of my JBL L-100a Century Speakers that are mounted on them.
To begin with I placed the front 2 Cones under the Woofer and Midrange speaker, but this placement* worked very poorly as it muffled the normally crisp and clear sound of these JBL AlNiCo speakers which were used by most US Recording Studios in the 1970's as final mix monitors.
I then moved the front 2 Cones as far out to the sides along the front of the speakers as I could and left the rear Cone in the center at the back of the speaker and the speakers came to life with the clearest most intricately detailed sound I have heard from them in the almost 9 years that I have owned them!
These 2 sets of Mk3 BDR Cones are keepers! They have improved the sound of my Speakers far more than I had expected and this improvement is worth far more than the $90 cost of implementation.
*BDR Cones are similar to real estate because getting the most out of them depends on location, location, location! I have placed 6 sets of them in my Audio system and in each case how well they worked was totally dependant on proper placement!
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
[ This message was edited by: Maxxwire on 2011-04-13 02:32 ]
|
|
rb
Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer
Joined: Mar 04, 2003
Posts: 2035
From: Canada
 | Posted: 2006-04-27 11:46
Thanks for sharing your experience with the BDR cones Maxx. With my completely solid state system I found #4''s to work best for me.
-----------------
rb
I listen to music in StereO
|
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-04-27 13:35
Rick- Black Diamond states that their Mk3 Cones were designed with a resonant frequency that is best suited for Solid State equipment and that the Mk4 Cones are more neutral which benefits Tube equipment.
As true BDR Coneheads we have each found that the manufacturers suggested application methodology does not apply in our Stereo systems.
I gave both the Mk3 and Mk4 Carbon Fiber Cones a try and the Mk3 cones gave both my Tube Preamp and Tube Power Amp more Resolution and inner detail.
I think that the lesson here would be to try both kinds of BDR Cones in any given application to see which works best because there is no way to predict which set of Cones will work best with any particular piece of equipment.
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
|
jttar
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Master
Joined: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 9156
From: Chicago,IL, USA
 | Posted: 2006-04-29 23:22
Maxx,
Reading that your JBL speakers "came to life with the clearest most intricately detailed sound I have heard from them in the almost 9 years that I have owned them!", is a remarkable statement, considering your finely tuned system. Could you share a little more detail with us?
Joe (aka BeastMaster)
|
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-05-02 04:00
On 2006-04-27 02:29, Maxxwire wrote:the speakers came to life with the clearest most intricately detailed sound I have heard from them in the almost 9 years that I have owned them!
At the time I wrote this I was being purposely conservative in my description of the effects of this Resonance Tuning upgrade on my speakers because I wanted to take a few days for a more extensive evaluation.
I have now had several more days to evaluate the new Transparency and Resolution that this upgrade has brought and I want you to know that it is neither hyperbole nor exageration to say that the combined effect of the adding the Seismic Sink to the Tube Preamp and BDR Coning the Speakers in combination with the 120 previous Resonance Tuning upgrades I did have improved the Transparency and the Resolution capabilities of this Audio system by an amount equal to that of going from SD to HD in Video.
My working theory is that Audio equipment including speakers have a tendency to dam up Resonance and thus prevent the full fidelity of the signal to pass.
We can still do upgrades and they will improve the sound because they pass over the Dammed Resonance just as newly added water would force water over a Dam that is full, but the pent up water still remains behind the Dam.
What installing the Seismic Sink and BDR Coning the speakers did was to destroy those 2 Resonsnce Dams and release all of the pent up sonic potential of the equipment along with all of full the benefits of the previous upgrades that had been restricted by the Dammed Resonance to flow freely downstream for the very first time to be fully appreciated!
This is why I have gotten more meaningful improvements from Resonance Tuning my Audio equipment than I have from upgrading the equipment itself because without Resonance Modification it tends to dam up the effects of Resonance which obfuscates its true sonic potential.
I have read the lenghthy descriptions of the sonic results achieved by guys who have done $2,000+ worth of exotic parts upgrades on their Preamps which are the same brand as mine only more expensive models and compared to what the $185 it cost me for the Seismic Sink and 2 sets of BDR Cones did for my Preamp it sounds to me like my Resonance Modified will run sonic circles around the expensive modified version even though they have parts that cost 16 times as much!
The day I picked up the BDR Cones for the speakers I got to hear a great Reference Audio system at the Audio shop. It consisted of:
The $6,200 Audio Aero Capitole 24/192 CD player which upsamples with their custom designed Algorithm which is run by 32 bit floating point SHARC chip.
The $13,500 Edge NL-10 SS High Current Stereo Power Amp with dual 1,000 va transformers.
And a $16,000 pair of B&W 800 speakers.
I found some great Mozart Music and hit play! First off, the B&W 800's don't sound nearly as good as the $40,000 B&W Nautilus speakers do, but they still sound very good.
Overall I would say that the sound of this system was on a par with the sound I had 2 years ago before I started getting audible results from Resonance Tuning which was probably due to the fact that I have better Tuned Room Acoustics than they do at the Audio shop.
The sound of this Reference quality system honestly doesn't come anywhere close to the quality of the sound I have now.
After 130 Resonance Tuning upgrades the sound of my humble Audio equipment is able to make Music that on a level of such Transparency and absolute Realism that this un-Resonance Tuned super sophisticated ultra expensive Audio equipment has no hope of ever acheiving as it sits.
Why? It isn't because I have better equipment because I most certainly don't! No matter how great the quality of the Audio equipment great quality sound can only be achieved by total systematic Resonance Tuning!
The one and only advantage that my Audio system has despite all of the equipment disadvantages compared to this Audio system and the fact that I choose to run it in 16 bit resolution instead of 24 bit is that my Audio equipment has been carefully Resonance Tuned which allows it to make sweet natural sounding Music that simply can't be done with un-Resonance Tuned equipment!
I heard the $30,000 Sony SCD-1/ TA E-1/ TA N-1/ SS M-9ED system over a dozen times and it had the exact same problem of not being able to bring the Music to life. They brought in a pair of $30,000 KEF Reference Monitors to try to solve the problem, but it didn't sound any better because poor room treatments and the lack of Resonance Tuning had a sonic death grip on this system which is in actuality one of the finest Reference Audio systems ever made.
As I sat with in the well treated boundaries of my listening room enjoying the newly enhanced capabilities of my now fully Resonance Tuned Audio system this evening the sound was so realistic that I could hear the notes of the solo violin freely, clearly and effortlessly bounce from one boundary of the recording venue to the other as it very clearly mapped out the exact true orginal dimentions of the hall that the recording was made which greatly expanded the preceived size of the listening room.
I could go on and on about the perfect tonality of the instruments, the wholly formed three dimentional imagery and the extrordinarily lifelike Pace, Rhythm and Timing that is indistinguishable from the original Musical event that Resonance Tuning can bring out of Audio equipment, but you will see more about this in other Threads.
Just knowing why all of those ultra expensive Audio systems sounded so flat and unlifelike and now knowing how to raise up the sound quality of an Audio system that cost a fraction as much to astonishing levels of sonic excellence through Resonance Tuning is worth the 6 years of work that I put into experimenting until I finally found the answers I was looking for.
~Maxx~
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
One Half of My A/V System
[ This message was edited by: Maxxwire on 2006-05-02 12:53 ]
|
mykyll2727
Rank: Sony Pro
Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 4171
From: Las Vegas
 | Posted: 2006-05-03 22:57
I for one am definitely a BDR cone head. I use them under virtually everything including my line conditioner. Maxx is absolutely correct about placement. I have found that there aren't any absolutes with regard to that either. I have found that one placed to some degree under transformers/power supllies produces excellent results. The degree varies with the component. With MMM for example directly under her transformer is not best but somewhat forward is. At one point I was using almost all MK4s. These combined with granite and marble energy sincs, along with some other materials, produced detail that was truly unreal in MMM's system. I heard things that one would not hear in a live performance unless you were standing on top of the performer/instrument. I still marvel at the amount of detail that exisits on a RBCD. But the sound tended to be cold and without any bloom whatsoever. Positioning was so critical that even a couple of millimeters difference produced significant changes in sound. MK3s gave me warmth and bloom but detail was lacking. Then I did the Dynamat treatments. Now it's almost all MK3s. I've gone from four MK4s with each K90 to two MK3s and one MK4. Positioning is somewhat more forgiving but is still critical. I'm building a DIY rack that I'm going to use with my DIY platforms. I'm hoping it'll work for me. If not a Skylan rack will be next. I'll see what configuration I'll settle on with the new rack and platforms._MMMike
|
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-05-08 14:35
I experimented for 4 years with Resonance Tuning my Audio equipment and out of the 50 different tools I had aquired only 9 pieces of Hybrid Sorbothane that was decoupling the Digital front end were truly effective and because there were so many pieces left untuned downstream I couldn't hear the positive effects of the decoupled Digital front end.
That all changed 2 years ago when I discovered using BDR Cones. For the first time I was able to get enough pieces properly Resonance Tuned by using BDR Cones to hear the amazing effects that Resonance Tuning can make.
I can't say that they work the same psitive way in every possible application, but they provided the breakthroughs I needed in the Resonance Tuning of my Audio system.
I am currently using 6 sets of BDR cones in a total of 21 Resonance Tuning applications in my Audio system and although the BDR Cones are used in less than 1/3 of the system they work absolute sonic miracles where they are used.
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
|
maverick11359
Rank: Sony King
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 1516
From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA
 | Posted: 2006-05-09 18:05
On 2006-04-27 11:46, rb wrote:
Thanks for sharing your experience with the BDR cones Maxx. With my completely solid state system I found #4''s to work best for me.
Gaday Rb , Maxx and friends
I ,ve just had an earth chattering experience, did a half hearted experiment which changed my skeptical heart forever
(well maybe).
As you can see in the pic below I placed this glass shelf with Neotech Metal Cones under my sony amp and it completely changed my sound not just a little a lot(as much as different speaker cables did).
My question to you guys is there a correct amount of cones , 3 or 4 ?
Is placement on solid state gear critical? should i replace the glass with something different or just put the cones straight on to the bottom of the components or leave alone?
Rb you have metal cones under all your solid state equipment does the sound change if some componets are left with out the cones,what i'm trying to say is i only did this to one componet ,will my sound keep changing if i do this to my Rotel power amp and Denon player as well.
Is there large differences between the brands and sizes ,Neotech make gold and black and 1" (25mm)and 1+1/2"(30mm)pyramid cones?
http://www.selbyacoustics.com.au/storefrontprofiles/deluxeSFshop.aspx?sid=1&sfid=74520&c=84153 will the different shape cones do different things?
Still in some disbelief and shaking my head!
A happy ! MaveRick.
[ This message was edited by: maverick11359 on 2006-05-09 19:02 ]
|
RickeyM
Premium Member
Rank: Sony King
Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 1408
From: Baltimore, Maryland
 | Posted: 2006-05-09 21:53
maverick, have you tried putting your receiver directly on the cones without the glass? Report man, inquiring minds have to know!
-----------------
Graduate of Sony University, class of '94.
Support your local S.P.C.A. Adopt
If older is better, I must be approaching magnificence!
|
maverick11359
Rank: Sony King
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 1516
From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA
| Posted: 2006-05-10 00:53
On 2006-05-09 21:53, RickeyM wrote:
maverick, have you tried putting your receiver directly on the cones without the glass? Report man, inquiring minds have to know!
Gaday RickeyM,
No I have had the Neotech isolation cones glued to the glass , their been there a long time(couple of years)and I can't get them off.
I,m definitely going to purchase more cones of some description the question is what type and how may?
There are so many types to choice from all claiming to be better than the next.
Check these out.http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/vibrapod/cones.html
Tough decision!
Cheers Rick.
|
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-05-10 02:45
On 2006-05-09 18:05, maverick11359 wrote:
1) I ,ve just had an earth chattering experience, I placed this glass shelf with Neotech Metal Cones under my sony amp and it completely changed my sound not just a little a lot (as much as different speaker cables did).
2) My question to you guys is there a correct amount of cones , 3 or 4 ?
3) Is placement on solid state gear critical?
4)should i replace the glass with something different or just put the cones straight on to the bottom of the components or leave alone?
5) i only did this to one componet ,will my sound keep changing if i do this to my Rotel power amp and Denon player as well.
MaveRick-
1) Welcome to a series of the most significant and cost effective upgrades you can do to your Audio system!
2) Since in geometry three points define a 2 dimentional plane using 3 Cones under a piece of equipment or speaker is prefered.
3) The general rule of thumb is to place the first cone under the transformer or under the Transport in a Player and then use the other two cones to balance everything out. Experimentation is the key so feel free to try anything that you think might work because your equipment and set up situation are unique and will require an equally unique solution.
4) Thin glass has a tendancy to "ring" and its resonant frequency will have a negative effect on your efforts at Resonance Tuning that you should avoid for best results.
It would be advisable to place the Cones directly under the piece for best results.
5) I have found that the effects of Resonance Modification are cumulative and the more pieces in the Audio system that you have Tuned the better overall results you will get.
I just finished fine Tuning my Preamp and Speakers and I can say with all confidence that they brought the most dramatic increases in Transparency and Resolution that I have ever experienced in my Audio system from any improvement I have ever done to it which taught me never to underestimate the amount of improvement that Resonance Tuning can make.
I have the feeling that we are going to hear a lot more from you in the near future about your continued successes in Resonance Tuning your Audio system because you are very creative and rescourceful when it comes to improving the sound of your Audio system!
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
|
maverick11359
Rank: Sony King
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 1516
From: Coffs Harbour-AUSTRALIA
| Posted: 2006-05-10 03:59
Thanks Maxx,
Youv'e already helped so much towards my acoustic improvements !
My system keeps changing but evolving ,sometimes half a step back to two steps forward.
You notice i didn't mention if it was an improvement but a very noticable change and I think you hit the nail on the head with what i heard and the glass shelf effect.
It was like I was hearing two sets of brushed cymbals with a slight delay on one which was a bit discerning but apart from that there was also tighter , cleaner bass to be had and it definitely changed my sound stage, undecided on that one though.Mid range with female voices came further forward and more life like(scary !just kidding).
Sounds like I need 9 cones for my three componets .
Which now brings me to the dilemma of which type ?
I,ve read a few reviews since last night and it seems to come down to three choices your Mark3 DBR ,Mark4 DBR,s or the Vibrapods.
Is there anyone you recommend to buy these of and what do think of the vibrapods. Your last recomendation for purchase was great with the glass toslink.
P.S this sure beats whatching the grass grow whlie i'm waiting for my crossover project to start.
Cheers MaveRick.
[ This message was edited by: maverick11359 on 2006-05-10 05:57 ]
|
dahrich
Premium Member
Rank: Sonyphile
Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 749
From: California
 | Posted: 2006-05-10 11:37
mykyII:
Question for you. I have a DVP NC555Es which I think is the same as you have.
Are you putting the BDR cones under it? And if yes how many and are the cones placed tip down? Also, can you tell me, with dimensions if possible, the location of each cone?
Regards,
Richard
|
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-05-10 14:43
On 2006-05-10 03:59, maverick11359 wrote:
1) My system keeps changing but evolving ,sometimes half a step back to two steps forward. You notice i didn't mention if it was an improvement but a very noticable change.
2) I,ve read a few reviews since last night and it seems to come down to three choices your Mark3 BDR ,Mark4 BDR,s or the Vibrapods.
3) Is there anyone you recommend to buy these of and what do think of the vibrapods.
1) This time you've hit the nail on the head! One of the most important things you need to have here is the decernment to know if the Resonance Modifications you are making are taking you in the right direction or not and only you can decide that.
2) I have successfully used both the BDR Mk3 Cones and the Vibrapods and all I can say is what works a sonic miracle in one application can just as easily kill the sound in another place you use it!
Its all about experimentation! Your equipment and set up situation are different from anyone else's so while its good to take tips from othere you may find that you get completely different results than they did even if you do happen to have the same piece of equipment.
3) Jeff's Sound Values has the best price on BDR Cones @ $US16 each.
Vibrapods are a good inexpensive tool to have around in case you might need them. I tried using them in several different applications where thy did not work well, but did I find them to be the ideal solution in 2 different applications and that's why I still keep several on hand in case I might need them.
~Maxx~
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
One Half of My A/V System
[ This message was edited by: Maxxwire on 2006-05-10 14:55 ]
|
Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25735
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-05-10 15:00
Here's one of the most informative articles on Audio System Resonance Tuning that I know of.
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
|
|
This topic thread spans 5 pages - You are currently on page 1
NEXT>> (1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 )
|
|
|
| Advance
Features |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
