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    Moderated By: Toli
    Agoraquest Forum Index Getting Started/Building a Home Theater
      
    The 7000 SS has FINALLY arrived! Dashboard
    Replies: 31 | Views: 5,048
    Last Reply: March 21, 2006, 2:51 pm

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    Maxxwire | retate | jehill | Toli | OnlyESPlease | edconline |
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    Author The 7000 SS has FINALLY arrived!
    edconline

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 147
    From: Ontario, Canada

      Posted: 2006-02-25 11:49

    At Last!
    It has been a seemingly endless 7 weeks as I waited for the Monster HTPS 7000 SS to arrive. Finally, about a week ago,  I called to see where it was. I was told that it was out of stock, and was being replaced with the HTPS 7000 SS MK2, which happened to be in stock. So, apologizing for the long wait, they shipped me the 7000 SS MK2 at no additional cost. It arrived UPS two days later, and what a beautiful thing it was to behold! This unit definately has some weight to it, at about 45lbs it is definately the heaviest power conditioner I looked at.

    The first thing I noticed upon plugging it in was 'oh my god, there are only 108 volts coming in!?! Once I got everything hooked up, I put on some HD Olympic coverage to see if i noticed any difference. Immediately I could see that the picture was way brighter, especially the whites. Also, the picture looked a lot cleaner with virtually zero artifacts or scan lines. I was honestly surprised because I didn't think it would make a huge difference from the PB1000 I'd been using for a few years. The difference in the audio quailty was at first much more subtle but after listening to a few SACD's and the new Ray Charles Superdisc I picked up, it seemed like there was more detail especially in the high end and there was now absolutely no noise at all even with the volume at +10 and an analog input selected.

    Next I took an Entech wideband powerline noise analyzer that we had at the store home, to test the noise reduction. I don't think these are the best analyzers out there, but it would give me an idea of how much cleaner it was than the PB1000. When I plugged the analyzer into the wall outlet i barely had to turn it up to get to a reading of 100, PLUS I WAS PICKING UP A LOCAL AM RADIO STATION ON THE SPEAKER! When I plugged the analyzer into the HTPS, it read 0.04 on the same setting that gave 100 from the wall. Maxxed out on the sensitivity, it gave a reading of 14.1 with a barely audible hiss from the meter. I would be interested in getting a quality analyzer somewhere and testing various configurations.

    One thing that is bothering me is the voltage situation. It hovers around 108 however sometimes goes up to 118 as the max, and can go as low as 104. However, the audible 'AbnormalVoltage' alarm and light are coming on like 10 times a day, to tell me the voltage has sagged below 100 or spiked above 130 volts so obviously it is worse than I can see just on the readout. Now I was inclined to wait to plug anything back in until the AVS 2000 SS, also on order, came in. As one of my buddies pointed out though, I've been using it with that kind of voltage all along - now i just KNOW how bad it is. I guess he has a point, it should only be about a month until the AVS 2000 is here. I also ordered two monster UPS 500's, one for the TV, one for the Satellite and Xbox 360. Does anyone have any insight into how bad voltage drops like this are for the equipment? Will report on the AVS 2000 and update pictures of the system when it arrives. 
    Ed 
    Setup: Television: KP57WV600 Receiver: STRDA7100ES DVD/SACD: DVPNS9100ES DVD Recorder: RDRGX315 VCR: SLVN750 Speakers: SSMF750H (x2), SSMF350H (x2), SSCN550H, SSMB150H (x2) Sub: SAWX900 Gaming: Xbox 360, Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, N64 Remote: RMAV3000, Power: HTPS 7000 SS MK2

    [ This message was edited by: edconline on 2006-02-25 11:56 ]


         


    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26067
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2006-02-25 15:20

    edconline- I was once concerned about voltage fluxuations and I found this advice over at Audio Asylum from the man who founded Balanced Audio Technologies (BAT)...

    Posted by Victor Khomenko on October 09, 2000 at 05:35:31:

    123v is nothing to worry about, if the gear is designed well. Anything that can not take +5% all day long is, strictly speaking, deficient in some way.

    In your situation you are experiencing voltage swings much wider than the 6v that Victor was refering to and you would benefit greatly from AC Power Regulation.

    As far as harm to the equipment from voltage fluctuatons go I beleive it is hardest on the voltage regulation circuitry of the equipment.

    Let us know how eveything works when you have everything in place!

    ~Maxx~

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    retate

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Nov 29, 2002
    Posts: 128
    From: Minnesota

      Posted: 2006-02-25 19:18

    Ed,

    The impact of the voltage drops on most audio/video equipment should be minimal in terms of actual equipment failure that would require repair.  Low line voltage does have an effect on performance and operation.  Most amplifiers will not be able to deliver their rated power under low voltage conditions and some equipment will not operate at all.  I once owned a McIntosh MR-71 tuner (tube unit) that would not function when the line voltage dropped below 100 volts which was happening frequently in the apartment complex I was living in.  I measured the line voltage a couple of times a day for three weeks and then contacted the power company with the data.  Their initial reaction was that it was unlikely that it was their problem, but because of the data I had presented them with they said they would install a voltage monitor for a couple of weeks.  When the person they dispatched to install the monitor came out, he took a look around, and determined that the transformer for the part of the complex I was living in was half the capacity of the transformers in the other parts of the complex which meant it was badly overloaded when air conditioning was being used.  The power company then came in and replaced the transformer which solved the problem.

    There is a more important reason than your audio/video equipment to try to get the low line voltage resolved.  Electrical motors for items such as furnace blowers, refrigerators, AC compressors, etc. have to work harder under low voltage condtions which may shorten their life or the life of the control circuity if higher than normal current is being drawn.

    One other question is how confident are you of the quality of the circuits your equipment is connected to?  Low voltage can be caused by under rated wiring, poor connections, etc.  If you are not sure of the condition of your wiring, you should have an electrician check it out.  If you believe your wiring is in good shape, or if you can determine that a neighbor is seeing similar low voltages, then you should collect data and contact your power company.  Regular periods of 104 volts I expect will be viewed as outside of "normal".

    Bob


       
    edconline

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 147
    From: Ontario, Canada

      Posted: 2006-02-27 09:52

    Bob,
    The room actually has all brand new wiring, we put it in when we built the addition about 2 years ago, well rather an electrician did the wiring. The outlets that the HT run on are on their own 15 amp breakers and run directly to the panel. I'm guessing the next course of action would then be to contact the local power company. (Although the automatic voltage regulator is coming as well) Thanks for the suggestion.
    Ed

    -----------------
    KDSR60XBR2, STRDA7100ES, DVPNS9100ES, RDRGX315, SLVN750, SSK90ED (x2), SSK70ED (x3), SSMB150H (x2), SAWX900 x 2, SAWX700 x 2, PS3 (60GB), Dell XPS M1710 w/ BD Burner, Xbox 360 w/ HD DVD, Gamecube, RMAV3000, HTPS 7000 SS MK2, AVS 2000 SS, HTUPS 500 x 2


         
    OnlyESPlease

    Rank: Sony Addict


    Joined: Sep 15, 2004
    Posts: 221
    From: St.Louis,Mo

      Posted: 2006-02-27 19:23

    With voltage consistantly that low I would have a talk with the power company. My AVS2000 does a great job of taming the swings in voltage in my home but the less it has to do the better.

    Congrats on the 7000, I've been very happy with mine for quite a while now. Lower noise floor and better video were the big obvious changes, more will become apparent as you use it longer.

    One note of interest for you. When you get the AVS2000 the voltage meter on it will almost never perfectly agree with the one on the HTPS7000. I've been told that by having 2 voltmeters on the same line there is always some inconsistancy between them. Also, the amp meter on the 7000 seems to report the most recent peak in amps, while the 2000 seems to becurrent level.

    Best wishes and if I can help let me know.

    -----------------
    STR-DA7ES w/ RM-TP1, 60A2000 SXRD,BDP-S1, DHG-HDD250, DVP-NS999ES, RCD-W222ES; Monster Signature 3 & 2 Channel Amplifiers, Signature HTPS 7000 and Signature AVS 2000; Polk RT2000i, CS400i, FXi50; SVS PC-Ultra Sub; Audioquest, Monster,and IXOS cables.


       
    retate

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Nov 29, 2002
    Posts: 128
    From: Minnesota

      Posted: 2006-03-02 21:23

    Ed,

    The fact that the wiring is relatively new, and that they run directly to the panel (assuming you mean the main panel and not a sub panel) certainly makes it more likely it is a power company problem.  Even with the voltage regulator coming I would suggest trying to work the low voltage issue because of the possible iimpacts on electric motors, etc.

    Bob




    On 2006-02-27 09:52, edconline wrote:
    Bob,
    The room actually has all brand new wiring, we put it in when we built the addition about 2 years ago, well rather an electrician did the wiring. The outlets that the HT run on are on their own 15 amp breakers and run directly to the panel. I'm guessing the next course of action would then be to contact the local power company. (Although the automatic voltage regulator is coming as well) Thanks for the suggestion.
    Ed





       
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26067
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2006-03-03 01:55

    Ed- there are a lot of other folks on the same power line who are having the same low power problems that you are and probably aren't even aware of it. You would be doing everyone a service by calling the Power Company's attention to this problem. There is a certain voltage range that they are required to maintain.

    ~Maxx~

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14281
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2006-03-03 11:39




    On 2006-02-27 09:52, edconline wrote:
    Bob,
    The room actually has all brand new wiring, we put it in when we built the addition about 2 years ago, well rather an electrician did the wiring. The outlets that the HT run on are on their own 15 amp breakers and run directly to the panel.


    May I ask the amperage rating of your electrical service (the rating of the main circuit breaker)?  The reason that I ask is that your electrical service may be sufficient for the original loads, but not for the original and new loads.  Also, if the loads are not distributed approximately equal between the phases, that can cause a problem.

    -----------------
    -John

    Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550 and AVD-LA2500PKG, consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer


       
    edconline

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 147
    From: Ontario, Canada

      Posted: 2006-03-04 09:32

    Ok,
    The power company is sending a technician out Friday morning to take a reading. They originally were just going to take one reading at the meter, so I asked them to leave a monitor for at least a week to prove how bad the fluctuations are but apparently that is up to the technician when he/she comes. I actually had to argue with them for a good 15 minutes just to get them to send someone out, they kept telling me that it was impossible it was fluctuating that much.

    I finally figured out whats causing the alarm to go off at night, at first I assumed that it was sagging below 80 volts but I never actually saw the meter. Last night I sat and watched it for like 30 minutes and finally I saw it - a voltage SPIKE to 143 volts! So it turns out during the day, the voltage will sag down to in some cases 93 (the lowest I have seen) and averages 108. At night, it is voltage spikes over 140 volts that causes the alarm to sound. UPS came yesterday but sadly only the UPS 500's arrived I guess it will be Monday before the AVS comes.

    John -
    I don't know offhand the amperage rating, but I will check later and let you know. I'm not sure what you mean about the loads being distributed evenly between the phases - is one phase one side of the panel?

    -Ed

    -----------------
    KDSR60XBR2, STRDA7100ES, DVPNS9100ES, RDRGX315, SLVN750, SSK90ED (x2), SSK70ED (x3), SSMB150H (x2), SAWX900 x 2, SAWX700 x 2, PS3 (60GB), Dell XPS M1710 w/ BD Burner, Xbox 360 w/ HD DVD, Gamecube, RMAV3000, HTPS 7000 SS MK2, AVS 2000 SS, HTUPS 500 x 2


         
    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14281
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2006-03-04 11:14

    Correct!  The two phases are on the left and right sides of the panel.  All of the 110 VAC connections are made between one side and the ground buss in the box.  220 VAC connections are made between the two sides, although the two ganged breakers are on one side of the other.  Your 143 volt spike could be due to a a heavy load being starting on the other phase.  The transformer that supplies your house has a center tapped secondary winding.  The center tap or "neutral" should be grounded to the earth at the transformer and also in your home to the water pipe entering your home as well to a separate grounding rod (depending on the local codes).  The voltage from each end of the winding to the center tap is referred to as a phase.  The two voltages are 180 degrees out of phase with each other.  Usually, the "service" consists of three wires connected to the two phases and the center tap.  The larger these wires the heavier the service.  That means that there is less resistance in each wire.  When a load is applied to one phase, the voltage drop in the ground or neutral connection increases the voltage across the other phase.  The heavier the service, the less the voltage drops in one phase and increases in the other phase.

    -----------------
    -John

    Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550 and AVD-LA2500PKG, consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer


       
    edconline

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 147
    From: Ontario, Canada

      Posted: 2006-03-04 12:21

    Ok, that makes sense. So 220V would be 'balanced power'? The 7000 SS has a switch on the back that says 'balanced' and 'normal (isolation)'. When I called Monster Cable and asked about the switch they said that unless my equipment specified balanced power I should leave it in the normal (isolation) setting. He also said that I still got the benefits of the balanced isolation transformers in the normal setting. There are two balanced transformers, one supplies power to two banks of two outlets for digital components and the other supplies power to one outlet bank for analog audio components of which i have none so nothing is connected there. The other six outlets are two banks for high current audio and a video bank. Apparently these are not run from the balanced transformers because of the high current draw of these devices and the size of transformer that would be required for that. I'm assuming that the Monster CAble tech knew what he was talking about and that I am better off running it in normal mode, but from what I have read it seems balanced power would be better as far as noise cancellation for my components.
    -Ed

    -----------------
    KDSR60XBR2, STRDA7100ES, DVPNS9100ES, RDRGX315, SLVN750, SSK90ED (x2), SSK70ED (x3), SSMB150H (x2), SAWX900 x 2, SAWX700 x 2, PS3 (60GB), Dell XPS M1710 w/ BD Burner, Xbox 360 w/ HD DVD, Gamecube, RMAV3000, HTPS 7000 SS MK2, AVS 2000 SS, HTUPS 500 x 2


         
    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14281
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2006-03-04 20:59

    I am not familiar with the contents of the 7000 SS or any Monster line conditioner for that matter.  I suspect that the transformers referred to have two windings on a toroid core with one winding in series with each side of the AC line.  This is a standard EMI filter.  The currents in the two windings cancel each other.  This has nothing to do with balancing the loads on the distribution panel, since the unit itself plugs into a wall receptacle connected to a single phase.

    -----------------
    -John

    Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550 and AVD-LA2500PKG, consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer


       
    edconline

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 147
    From: Ontario, Canada

      Posted: 2006-03-04 22:58

    John,
    I checked on the main breaker at the panel, it is a double breaker that says 125 on either side. I'm assuming that this means the entire panel is rated at 125 amps. Now it seemed like there were an equal number of breakers on both sides being used but I really didn't know what I was looking for.

    As far as the 7000 SS, the technician mentioned that the transformers took the 120 volts carried on the positive and split it into two 60's, one on positive one one neg and neutral ground? If I remember correctly, lol, to be honest I didn't really know what he was talking about a lot of the time.  

    Another question: I was looking at the back of the UPS's and the fact that the cord wasn't attached. I then learned for the first time what an IEC recepticle was and about power cord upgrades. Now I'm curious as to what the benefits of upgrading power cords would be. I know both the 7100ES and the 9100ES have IEC recepticles and that the power cords supplied with both look pretty thin, almost like slightly heavier lamp cord. Also, come to think about it the cord on my SAWX900 is really flimsy too, that one however is built in so upgrading it may prove to be a bit of a challenge.

    Thanks for all your help!
    -Ed

    -----------------
    KDSR60XBR2, STRDA7100ES, DVPNS9100ES, RDRGX315, SLVN750, SSK90ED (x2), SSK70ED (x3), SSMB150H (x2), SAWX900 x 2, SAWX700 x 2, PS3 (60GB), Dell XPS M1710 w/ BD Burner, Xbox 360 w/ HD DVD, Gamecube, RMAV3000, HTPS 7000 SS MK2, AVS 2000 SS, HTUPS 500 x 2


         
    retate

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Nov 29, 2002
    Posts: 128
    From: Minnesota

      Posted: 2006-03-04 23:51



    For those who are interested in a better understanding of balanced http://www.equitech.com/articles/articles.html has a number of white papers discussing it.  220 volt is by default balanced power.  120 volt out of your wall socket is not.  The use of balanced 120 volt power in areas such as recording studios started if I recall correctly about 15 years ago.  At the time this trend started there were questions about whether it was in violation of the electrical code.  I believe the standard electrical code was updated two or three revisions ago to make allowance for balanced 120 volt power in appliable situations.

    There are multiple vendors that produce devices that output 120 volt balanced power for both the profession and consumer audio and video markets.  These include Equitech, Furman, PS Audio, and others.  I reviewed the Monster Power documentation, and I cannot be certain from the documentation whether they are delivering balanaced power to the rear panel outlets or only using that concept internally.  The block diagram for the 7000 leads me to believe that the balanced power concept is only internal.  There is not a block diagram posted for the 7000SS, but the manaul seems to be suggesting that it has additional balanced power capabilities versus to the 7000.

    If it is balanced 120 volt power, then you would measure 60 volts from hot to ground and 60 volts from neutral to ground.  Also as mentioned by jehill the voltage between hot and neutral would be 180 degees out of phase resulting in 120 volts.  Based on everything I have read over the years and personal experience, I believe balanced power is a positive for audio and video.

    Bob






       
    retate

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Nov 29, 2002
    Posts: 128
    From: Minnesota

      Posted: 2006-03-05 00:10

    Ed,

    Is the 125 amp breaker the only high current breaker in your breaker box?  Typically in the US the main breaker appears as having one switch even though it actually does interrupt the power for both sides of the line.  For example, in my breaker box the main breaker has one switch labeled 200 for 200 amp service.  I then have a double breaker labeled 100 on each side which feeds a sub-panel.  The house originally had 100 amp service.  When it was upgraded to 200 amp service the original panel became a sub panel.

    I believe most newer construction in the US today has at least 150 amp service.  Your 125 amp service may be marginal depending on appliances, heating, cooling, etc.  However, I would have thought that if it was marginal the electrician who ran in your new circuits would have indicated that.

    My expereince is that power cords do make more of a difference that I would have thought.  The 7000SS manual indicates that it has a high quality shielded power cord.  Assuming it is a standard IEC cord, you may be able to run an experiment connecting it to one of your other devices to see if you hear enough difference to justify further investment in power cords.

    Bob





    On 2006-03-04 22:58, edconline wrote:
    John,
    I checked on the main breaker at the panel, it is a double breaker that says 125 on either side. I'm assuming that this means the entire panel is rated at 125 amps. Now it seemed like there were an equal number of breakers on both sides being used but I really didn't know what I was looking for.

    As far as the 7000 SS, the technician mentioned that the transformers took the 120 volts carried on the positive and split it into two 60's, one on positive one one neg and neutral ground? If I remember correctly, lol, to be honest I didn't really know what he was talking about a lot of the time.  

    Another question: I was looking at the back of the UPS's and the fact that the cord wasn't attached. I then learned for the first time what an IEC recepticle was and about power cord upgrades. Now I'm curious as to what the benefits of upgrading power cords would be. I know both the 7100ES and the 9100ES have IEC recepticles and that the power cords supplied with both look pretty thin, almost like slightly heavier lamp cord. Also, come to think about it the cord on my SAWX900 is really flimsy too, that one however is built in so upgrading it may prove to be a bit of a challenge.

    Thanks for all your help!
    -Ed





       
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