| Author |
Connecting 4 Amp Speakers to a DA-7100ES |
sdb
Rank: Sony Fan
Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 4
From: NYC
 |  Posted: 2006-01-23 23:13
Hi,
I have ordered a DA-7100ES to replace my DAV-C900, which came with 4-AMP speakers. I realize these speakers are 'challenged', but I am upgrading in bits and pieces. I realize that I can't connect the woofer that came with DAV-C900, but I have an active woofer from another system that should do well in that category.
I know the 7100 has a switch to enable 4 AMP speakers, but I found an article on the audioholics.com:
http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/4-ohmspeakersreceiver.php
that indicates not only do I not need to do this, but that it might not be the best idea. They are not 'Sony' friendly over there, so I thought I would gather opinions here.
Some of this advice is related to the efficiency rating of the speakers, which I can't find in the manual. Ideally, these should be high-efficiency speakers. And I assume the 7100ES would fall into the 'high-end' category, given in the table in the article.
Thanks for any and all suggestions.
Scott
[ This message was edited by: sdb on 2006-01-23 23:15 ]
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
 | Posted: 2006-01-24 01:13
Scott- That's quite a jump from the DAV C900 to the DA7100ES! You are in for a real treat!
I am assuming that you meant 4 Ohm speakers and not 4 AMP speakers in your post. The speakers that come with the DAV C900 are not only 4 ohm, but are also very low efficiency down in the low 80's dB SPL if memory serves.
The bottom line is that if you can hold the volume down during this stage of transition you can run those 4 speakers.
The only danger is turning the DA7100ES up too loud since these speakers require about 4 times as much power to get the same volume as an average 90 dB SPL efficient speaker would.
I would advise you to replace these speakers with 8 ohm 90 dB SPL or higher efficient speakers as soon as you are able, but until then if you must run the 4 ohm speakers keep the volume at very moderate levels in order to protect your new DA7100ES!
~Maxx~
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A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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sdb
Rank: Sony Fan
Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 4
From: NYC
| Posted: 2006-01-24 05:17
Hi Maxx,
Yes, I am looking forward to the improvement very much, as you can imagine.
Yes, of course I meant 4 Ohm speakers, sorry. Thanks for the advice.
Are you saying that even if I use the 4 Ohm switch on the receiver, that I risk damaging it with too high a volume level?
Thanks again,
Scott
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-01-24 14:47
Just be very careful with the volume levels when using the speakers from the DAV C900 because even if you do use the 4 ohm switch on the DA7100ES it will still take about 160 wpc to produce the same volume level as 40 wpc would with average efficiency speakers.
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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Timb
Rank: Sony Devotee
Joined: Sep 15, 2002
Posts: 65
From: Silicon Valley, CA; USA
 | Posted: 2006-01-24 14:49
Good comment Maxxwire, about the power requirements for 4 Ohm speakers.
I'm driving my old 4 ohm (86 db SPL) Celestion 7000s as front L/R speakers with my DA7100ES and do have the 7100 switch set for 4 ohm.
So far I feel comfortable with the levels I'm driving them to as I'm in an apartment setting with an imposed restraint to keep from blowing holes in the neighbor's walls. So far, so good.
Tim
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jehill
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Senior Advisor
Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 13793
From: Sewell, NJ
 | Posted: 2006-01-24 15:00
There is less risk of damaging the receiver if the impedance switch is in the 4 ohm position because the protective setpoints are more restrictive. If you leave the switch in the 8 ohm position, there will be more headroom or reserve power available, but the protective setpoints will be less restrictive because the reciever thinks that 8 ohm speakers are connected. Regardless of which position you place the switch in, if you keep the volume down to reasonable levels, you shouldn't have a problem. Its when you get aggressive with the volume control that you start to have problems. If you gradually increase the volume, letting the amps stabilize each time, eventually you may exceed the protective limits and get the PROTECT message. That's not a problem, just back off on the volume control setting. After about a half hour or so, you should be back in business.
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-John
Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550, AVD-C700ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-01-25 03:12
On 2006-01-24 14:49, Timb wrote: I'm driving my old 4 ohm (86 db SPL) Celestion 7000s as front L/R speakers with my DA7100ES and do have the 7100 switch set for 4 ohm.
So far I feel comfortable with the levels I'm driving them to as I'm in an apartment setting with an imposed restraint to keep from blowing holes in the neighbor's walls. So far, so good.
Tim- It sounds like you are being very responsable running the low efficiency Celestion speakers with your DA7100ES. BTW how does this pairing sound?
~Maxx~
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A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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sdb
Rank: Sony Fan
Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 4
From: NYC
| Posted: 2006-01-25 10:00
Just wanted to thank you all for your help. The 7100 arrived yesterday, and I'm already in heaven.
Thanks once again,
Scott
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Timb
Rank: Sony Devotee
Joined: Sep 15, 2002
Posts: 65
From: Silicon Valley, CA; USA
| Posted: 2006-01-25 12:38
re: BTW how does this pairing sound?
Maxx, they virtually sing. The soundstage is continuous from left to right and extends backwards and somewhat forward of the speaker's actual position. The mids are open and the highs are silky and transparent to my ear. I'm pleasantly surprised by the bass as the 7000's were not known for their bass response. It's clear and not boomy.
I must admit to some placement "engineering" as I was shifiting off the 9000 to the 7100 receiver. The Celestion 7000s have a wood base, with metal points to set right on the wood flooring that "connect to the room", but while re-reading the instructions for setup (something I do every few years in case I've overlooked something) I note that they recommend 'blue tack' between the speaker and the base to "connect" the speaker sonically to the base. I'd not done that before, so I zipped down to home depot and got some museum putty. I also re-measured the speaker placement from the back wall and adjusted it to the recommended 6" for both. (One WAS a bit closer to the wall than the other)
I wish I had had the presense of mind to do this "adjustment" while the 9000 was still driving the Celestions so I could compare the result fairly. The sound really opened up the minute I turned the 7100 on. Now with a couple of weeks to settle in, I think it's even better.
I'm gonna guess that the putty dots made more difference than moving the speakers an inch up and back, but sometimes that's all it takes so go figure.
Anyway, I'm really enjoying the Celestions but AM afraid to go audition any new speakers as 'the cascade' might go further than the receiver/dvd/HD-TV chain that is now underway. 
Regards,
Tim
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-01-25 15:38
On 2006-01-25 12:38, Timb wrote: I wish I had had the presense of mind to do this "adjustment" while the 9000 was still driving the Celestions so I could compare the result fairly.
I'm gonna guess that the putty dots made more difference than moving the speakers an inch up and back, but sometimes that's all it takes so go figure.
Tim- Which "9000" are you refering to?
Decoupling the Celestions from their rigidly coupled bases with the putty seems to have had a dramatic impact on their sound.
I had a similar experience when I switched from rigid coupling to decoupling with my JBL speakers.
~Maxx~
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A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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Timb
Rank: Sony Devotee
Joined: Sep 15, 2002
Posts: 65
From: Silicon Valley, CA; USA
| Posted: 2006-01-25 15:51
re: Tim- Which "9000" are you refering to?
My old TA-E9000ES/TA-N9000ES that I replaced with the 7100.
Tim
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-01-25 23:36
Oh, now I understand. I hope that moving from Sony's top of the line Analog seperates to its current top of the line Digital Receiver was a smooth one.
I gather from your Posts that you prefer the sound of the DA7100ES.
~Maxx~
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A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-01-25 23:46
Tim- Are your Celestion 7000's Hybrid Ribbon Speakers?
~Maxx~
-----------------
A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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Timb
Rank: Sony Devotee
Joined: Sep 15, 2002
Posts: 65
From: Silicon Valley, CA; USA
|  Posted: 2006-01-26 00:26
re: Hybrid Ribbons
Yes, that's them!
As far as a smooth transition, everything has gone fine.
And yes, I do like the sound of the 7100 over the 9000s, although the 9000s aren't anything to sneeze at.
Tim
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Maxxwire
Moderator
Premium Member
Rank: Sony Adept
Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 25732
From: Portland, Oregon - USA
| Posted: 2006-01-26 01:41
Tim- This adds a whole new dimention to what you have said about the sound of your DA7100ES as you are the first person that I know of around here who has paired this Digital Receiver with Hybrid Ribbon speakers.
~Maxx~
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A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!
The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930
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