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    Moderated By: claudio
    Agoraquest Forum Index Television Configuration
      
    how to adjust XBR960 Geometry for SD, HD, Twinview modes ? Dashboard
    Replies: 8 | Views: 2,882
    Last Reply: May 1, 2005, 1:47 am

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    andyross | kentech | jbelkin |
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    Author how to adjust XBR960 Geometry for SD, HD, Twinview modes ?
    jbelkin

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Mar 31, 2005
    Posts: 3
    From:

      Posted: 2005-04-28 20:17

    My first XBR960 (bought about 4 weeks ago) did not have very good Vpos/Hpos/Vsiz/Hsiz in SD mode, HD mode, and especially (and most annoyingly!) the Twinview displays. Particularly bad was the Zoom mode: when viewing a 4:3 letterboxed program in Zoom (so to fill the entire screen), the Zoom was overzooming quite a bit. The bottom 1" of the 4:3 picture (video just above the bottom letterbox) would be lost
    when Zoomed up to full screen.
    The set also had the geometry distortion I've seen described
    elsewhere, at the left and right edges, and misconvergence at the left and right outer portions of the screen.
    I wasn't too worried, as I've read all the 960 posts here and
    at AVS Forum and Keohi HDTV, and I've downloaded the 960 .XLS spreadsheet and .PFD files that describe the service mode adjustments.

    I was reasonably confident that the Tweeter Etc. serviceman
    could tweek my set.
    I burned in my set for about 75 hours and called him in.
    He spent about 45 minutes working on the dynamic convergence, geometry distortions, and 'main' Vpos/Hpos/Vsiz/Hsiz settings. When I demonstrated how the
    Zoom was magnifying the 4:3 way too much, and showed how
    the Twinview windows were way off in their own Vpos/Hpos/Vsiz/Hsiz, he did not know how to adjust these
    settings. The Left and Right Twinview windows also had
    very different Red decoder differences. When I set both
    to the same Video1 SVHS input from my DVD player and
    displayed the full Red screen test pattern from Avia,
    one window was a proper Red, the other a washed-out Salmon
    color!
    The tech said these were not adjustable, but I told him that I have information from the service manual that says everything is adjustable. He also could not get the convergence close to good, and concluded that my set could have a "defective yoke". We both agreed to have Tweeter exchange my set. Well, I could see that I wasn't going to get this particular tech to do any better with my set, and maybe it did have yoke problems with the convergence.

    After the tech left, I called Tweeter and talked to the head of
    the TV repair dept. in Canton MA. He was sympathetic
    to my problems with the set and agreed to send a "good"
    tech to me when I have set #2 burned in and ready for tweaking.

    So my replacement XBR960 (set #2) arrived on Tuesday, and
    it has nearly the geometry problems with Vpos/Hpos/Vsiz/
    Hsiz in SD, HD, Twinview and Zoom modes as set #1.
    Same geometry distortion too. Haven't closely checked
    the color decoding in Twinview yet, but I bet it needs fixing.
    Well, I guess this a good news/bad news situation:
    Good news is, Sony's factory adjustents are consistant
    and I didn't have a bum set #1. Bad news, of course, is I
    still need to get set #2 seriously adjusted!

    My question is this:
    How, *exactly*, are the Vpos/Hpos/Vsiz/Hsiz adjusted for
    SD, HD, Zoom, and Twinview (color too!) L, R displays ?
    I see how many of the entries say "depending on picture mode". While in Service Mode, can I access the picture mode buttons on the remote to get into Zoom, Twinview L / R, etc ? And then just scroll to the SM setting to be tweaked ?
    As you can probably tell, I haven't tried entering SM yet...
    and I am an electrical test engineer (20 years at Digital Equipment Co). I'd rather have the service technician
    take first crack at tweaking the set, and I'd like to have something I can print out, showing just how do it.

    TIA, Josh

    ps sorry about the goofy formatting, this is my first post here.
    I have only a small box to type my text into, so the lines
    are not as long as I wished for. I'm using Firefox.

    [ This message was edited by: jbelkin on 2005-04-28 20:32 ]


       


    kentech

    Rank: Sony Enthusiant


    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 45
    From: Portland, OR

      Posted: 2005-04-29 13:57


    • Member Quote

    On 2005-04-28 20:17, jbelkin wrote:
    . . . How, *exactly*, are the Vpos/Hpos/Vsiz/Hsiz adjusted for SD, HD, Zoom, and Twinview (color too!) L, R displays? I see how many of the entries say "depending on picture mode". While in Service Mode, can I access the picture mode buttons on the remote to get into Zoom, Twinview L / R, etc ? And then just scroll to the SM setting to be tweaked ?

    [ This message was edited by: jbelkin on 2005-04-28 20:32 ]


    A service-data chart for your set can be found here:

    www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=57b56a40daff47063838e87b4a36afd1&threadid=531494&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

    See messages #33 and 35. The articles may be of some help to you. (Some of these were earlier published in this forum.)

    -----------------
    KenTech


       
    andyross

    Rank: Sony Legend


    Joined: Mar 09, 2004
    Posts: 1093
    From: Schaumburg, IL

      Posted: 2005-04-29 17:30



     It's very confusing. Settings are scattered all over the place. Generally, I believe MIDx settings are digital processing adjustments, and changing sizes could cause artifacts. Normally, you would try and use the 2170D-1/2170D-2 settings to get the most common size/position adjustments.


      First, overall width (HSIZ) should be adjusted so that the outside edges of twinview borders are just OFF-screen. You should not be able to see them.


      2103-2 is mostly for the right TwinView window. SCON, SCOL, SHUE and SHAP adjust contrast, color, tint/hue, and sharpness. RF and composite/S-Video have separate settings.
     
      2103-1 adjusts the left, and single, windows.

      The master screen position/size/geometry are set in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2.

      Other position/size settings are in MID1, MID2, and MID3.
     
      MID1/MDHP, MDVP, MDHS, and MDVS set the size/position of the 4:3 window. MLHP and MLVP set the position of the two TwinView windows. SDHP, SDVP, SDHS and SDVS set the size/position of the little preview window in Favorites mode. OSDH and OSDV set the position of the channel number in Index mode.

      MID2 sets the size/position of the video for 480i modes. In 4:3 mode, this is the video INSIDE the window positioned by the MID1 settings. There are separate settings for 4:3 and other modes, and further broken into RF/composite/S-Video and component/DVI/HDMI. There are also settings for some of the windows in TwinView, Freeze, Favorites, and Index modes.

      The first 4 MID3 settings (VDHP, VDHS, VDVE, VDVS) are the size/position for 480p/720p/1080i modes.

      Much of this is explained in an Excel sheet I found and updated:
    http://home.att.net/~andyross/AV/XBR910_Service_Menu.ZIP


    -----------------
    Sony KDL-46EX700, Onkyo TX-NR609, Sony BDP-S370, WDTV Live Streaming, Motorola DCT-6412, RCA RCRP05B.


         
    jbelkin

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Mar 31, 2005
    Posts: 3
    From:

      Posted: 2005-04-29 21:35

    Thanks Ken, Andy.
    I have read the entire AVS Sony Service Codes thread,and downloaded everything posted there. I had seen and read some
    of your SM postings, Ken, but hadn't found your wonderful
    "everything in one place" thread till you mentioned it for me.

    I was aware of how the many of the various geometry adjustments are "nested", and that there are master geom.
    adjustments, but Andy's helpful post has helped me with
    understanding the order in which these should be tweaked.
    My next step is to get a MemoryStick Pro and card reader!

    Since my 960 is overscanning in its non-zoomed modes, the
    only way I can correctly adjust it in 1080i mode is to display
    a native 1080i test pattern. I was going to input Avia's
    1.78 Geom. test pattern and use Zoom mode to have it fill
    the screen, but this will only serve to help me adjust the
    Zoom mode (which is way over-zoomed, BTW!).

    I am seeing a pecular effect on the Twinview display.
    I have a Pioneer 578a DVD player connected into Input5
    (component) and also temporarily into Input3 with Svideo cable. The DVD player set to Progressive output mode.
    I display Avia's Resolution 100 TVL pattern and I get
    a solid clear display in Input3, regular 4:3 with the 960
    Mode set to Progressive or Cinemotion. If I use Interlaced,
    the test pattern "shimmers" in the finely-detailed parts.
    Input5 of course "locks out" the Mode button, but the
    test pattern looks even better than at Input3.
    This is all pretty much what I expected.

    When I set both Twinview windows to Input3 and display
    the Resolution 100 TVL pattern, the Left window
    appears stable while the Right window of the test pattern
    shimmers!
    When I switch the Left window to Input5, the Right windows
    now displays stable. The Left window is solid with either
    Input3 or Input5
    I found that the display of the Resolution test pattern in
    Right Twinview is affected by whether the Left window is displaying SD versus HD/component-input source. If I
    have Left window on an NTSC or 480i program, Right window shimmers.
    I change the Left window's channel to anything HD, the
    Right window becomes solid.
    While in Twinview mode, the Mode buttun is disabled.
    Its as if the Right Twinview screen goes into Interlaced
    mode, when the Left window is not getting a HD signal.
    It would be a LOT better if the Right window just obeyed
    the Mode setting I put its Input3 to ! Is this a bug?
    Can someone else confirm this illogical behavour?





       
    kentech

    Rank: Sony Enthusiant


    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 45
    From: Portland, OR

      Posted: 2005-04-29 22:51


    • Member Quote

    On 2005-04-29 17:30, andyross wrote:


    It's very confusing. Settings are scattered all over the place.



    The understatement of the year! That's a nice, concise summary.

    BTW, do you (or anyone) know of a service code for the transparency of the user menus? I would make it lot more transparent if I knew how.


    -----------------
    KenTech


       
    kentech

    Rank: Sony Enthusiant


    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 45
    From: Portland, OR

      Posted: 2005-04-29 23:04


    • Member Quote

    On 2005-04-29 21:35, jbelkin wrote:
    Since my 960 is overscanning in its non-zoomed modes, the only way I can correctly adjust it in 1080i mode is to display
    a native 1080i test pattern. I was going to input Avia's
    1.78 Geom. test pattern and use Zoom mode to have it fill
    the screen, but this will only serve to help me adjust the
    Zoom mode (which is way over-zoomed, BTW!).

    You should be able to use the overscan test pattern from Avia or DVE, then force the 1080i (full-height) scan mode with 2170P-4 #26 or 20, IDSW. This is a temporary scan-mode switch for setup purposes; it won't be saved, but the settings for the geometry will. All the available scan modes are there.

    Or you can get one of those 16:9 test patterns from my thread on avsforum, and put it on a memory stick. The crosshatches have 5% blank area outside the pattern, and the blocks are square.

    -----------------
    KenTech


       
    andyross

    Rank: Sony Legend


    Joined: Mar 09, 2004
    Posts: 1093
    From: Schaumburg, IL

      Posted: 2005-04-30 08:37

    Actually, for general FULL size geometry settings, it makes no difference whether it is 480i or 1080i. Don't use ZOOM or ZOOM WIDE for any configuration settings.

    2170D-1/ASPT (aspect ratio, but basically a VSIZ offset) has separate memories for 480 FULL or 4:3, 720/1080 FULL, and each of the two ZOOM modes. 2170D-1/SCRL is a VPOS offset for individual modes as above. These let you fine-tune the vertical size/position for different video modes.

    2170D-2/HPOS is separate for 720/1080. Most of the other 2170D-2 settings are separate for Wide Zoom, which is why it is non-linear.

    Also, consider getting DVE (Digital Video Essentials.) I have both, and found that with my particular setup, Avia was vertically off. It was offset down a bit and not the proper height. When I used DVE to set screen size/position, everything (at least from the DVD and built-in tuner) were properly centered. I still prefer Avia for the color/brightness settings, and the dimmer grid patterns when doing geometry and alignment.

    As for menu transparancy, I think that is new in the XS955/XBR960's. My spreadsheet is mainly for the XBR910/HS510, although other models are very similar. On older models, 2170P-4/LRGB sets the brightness of the on-screen display (channels numbers and other 'green' text.) I have mine set at the dimmest to prevent damage. OP/OSHD changes it's position.


    -----------------
    Sony KDL-46EX700, Onkyo TX-NR609, Sony BDP-S370, WDTV Live Streaming, Motorola DCT-6412, RCA RCRP05B.


         
    kentech

    Rank: Sony Enthusiant


    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 45
    From: Portland, OR

      Posted: 2005-04-30 15:47


    • Member Quote

    On 2005-04-30 08:37, andyross wrote:
    On older models, 2170P-4/LRGB sets the brightness of the on-screen display (channels numbers and other 'green' text.) I have mine set at the dimmest to prevent damage. OP/OSHD changes it's position.



    Thanks! Those codes are still working in the XS955 series, but they seems to apply only to the green service-mode text. I sat for a while last evening, tinkering with every service code I could vaguely connect with the menu display, to no avail. Maybe it's really not adjustable; or maybe it has a code name that is totally nonintuitive. I think "UMTR" for user-menu transparency would be nice, but no-go.


    -----------------
    KenTech


       
    jbelkin

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Mar 31, 2005
    Posts: 3
    From:

      Posted: 2005-05-01 01:47

    I do have DVE as well as Avia.

    I went to Microcenter today and got a Lexar Memorystick
    Pro and Lexar Jumpdrive Trio car reader. This USB Jumpdrive
    opens up and uses the Memory Stick Pro for its memory.
    I'll be loading it up with the test patterns from the AVS
    forum. Also, I believe I can use my WinDVD to make screen
    snapshots from DVE and Avia test patterns. Then I can
    process the snapshot .BMPs with Irfanview and fiddle with the
    H x W pixels to make them exactly 1920 x 1080, and save
    as hi-quality .JPGs for the Memory Stick.
    Pretty neat idea, eh?

    Andyross wrote:
    >>
    Actually, for general FULL size geometry settings, it makes no difference whether it is 480i or 1080i. Don't use ZOOM or ZOOM WIDE for any configuration settings.
    <<

    I don't get how I can accurately set the master Horizontal
    width using a 480i ? A 480i would be 4:3 and not "touch"
    the left and right extremes of the screen, right ?

    2170D-1/ASPT (aspect ratio). ??? Oh boy. Now I'm not so
    sure anymore I understand the correct sequence of how to
    adjust the various window geometry H's x W's.
    Sorry to sound dense, but Please, just what settings in what
    order should I be adjusting to adjust a 960's Hpos/Vpos/Hwidth/Vheight in all major display modes:
    16x9, 4x3, 4x3 letterboxed and Zoomed to be full screen,
    Twinview L and R ?

    thanks, Josh




       
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