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    Moderated By: claudio
    Agoraquest Forum Index MD/CD/SACD
      
    Is SACD really that good? Dashboard
    Replies: 47 | Views: 7,874
    Last Reply: November 22, 2003, 3:18 pm

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    Craig_Nike | dr_john | -W- | iluvdvds | rkkwan | Maxxwire | mofoed | octong | mhedges | rb | dorokusai | bhealy | caddman2 | delias | threers |
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    Author Is SACD really that good?
    dorokusai

    Rank: Sony Enthusiant


    Joined: Apr 13, 2003
    Posts: 44
    From: Damascus, MD

      Posted: 2003-10-27 21:42

    RK - I am actually just moving the 555ES into the 2CH setup I am building. I am definetly keeping that gear, been way too pleased with it. The 999ES will support the HT setup, and 5.1 SACD. I am simply at odds with having multiple brands of gear...mixing is a problem for me, its just psychological.

    Currently I am just using a old Sony DVD, nothing special, just plays movies.

    I see you have some nice goodies in your setup ...how is that HSU performing? I hear great things about their subs. The B&W's are a given that they sound sweet, that is a great line that you have.

    MHedges - I agree, simple is better. I for some reason have taken some longer painful routes tho', I must be difficult I guess.

    -----------------
    SONY STR-DA2ES
    SONY SCD-555ES
    Polk Audio RTi38 (Main)
    Polk Audio CSi30 (Center)
    Polk Audio FXi30 (Surround)
    Polk Audio PSW202 (Sub)
    Signal Cable (Video Interconnects - All)
    Signal Cable (Speaker Cable - All)
    Signal Cable (A2 5.1 SACD)


       


    rkkwan

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Aug 23, 2002
    Posts: 2623
    From: Houston, TX

      Posted: 2003-10-27 22:25

    dorokusai - I just don't think I'd spend a grand on a NS999ES. To me, it's still a very compromised machine. No DVD-A, not necessarily the best video. If I were to spend that much, I might just swallow it and get the Denon 5900 (list $2,000), which I know has excellent video, plays DVD-A, and has digital output for SACD/DVD-A (even if they might only with Denon receivers).

    Or go all out and get a Teac Esoteric DV-50 or DV-30, and forget about buying another player for years.

    Or wait for the Sony 9000 receiver and SACD player so that I can get a totally digital pathway for my SACD from source to the digital amp with no D/A and A/D conversion anywhere.

    As you see, too many "ORs" right now, so that's why I suggest getting a Denon 2200, and use it for a few years until the above goals are available at a decent price.

    Too many thoughts...

    -----------------
    -Ray
    SCD-C222ES, Panasonic DVD-CP72, Rotel RCD-961
    B&W 601/2s3, Yamaha RX-V1300, HSU Research VTF-2
    Samsung TXM2796HF & SIR-T151


         
    bhealy

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 66
    From: Wash

      Posted: 2003-10-28 01:28

    Mhedges -

    "less is more" is the philosophy of many studio engineers.
    That's why many of them like DSD I think. It doesn't mess with the signal as much as pcm does.
    And ultimately, years from now, dsd will become the standard for studio recording. Years from now, not anytime soon, but the foundation is being laid right now IMO.

    DSD is impressing many people, but right now, it's relatively wet behind the ears, and VERY expensive.
    It has a bright future though.


       
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2003-10-29 13:43

    Ray has listed some of the very expensive options available to adopt the all Digital processing of the emerging Hi Rez recording formats. Many of them are proprietary and all of them will be upgraded in the future. Let the buyer beware.

    -Maxx

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    rb

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Mar 04, 2003
    Posts: 2035
    From: Canada

      Posted: 2003-10-30 00:09

    I have to say that I don't understand why people think they need a digital connection from SACD/DVDAudio players to a receiver or preamp/processor.

    Why spend $2000.00 - $3000.00 on a SACD/DVDAudio player only to use it as a transport and have a home theater receiver do the digital to analog conversion. If machines like the Denon 5900 or Sony 9000 don't have better dacs and analog output stages than topline receivers why spend that kind of money on them?

    People say they want a digital connection because a receiver can do bass management which is needed for satellite/sub speaker systems. Nothing wrong with speaker systems like that but really if you own one was music reproduction ever a priority? If it was you made the wrong choice.

    I believe the way to build a quality audio system is to start at the source. I'm constantly amazed to hear people use a $129.00-$149.00 dvd player to play cd's.Then hook it up to $1000.00-$2000.00 receivers. Garbage in = garbage out. Even relatively inexpensive CD/DVD players from companies like Cambridge Audio or NAD sound WAY better than having a receiver to the digital to analog conversion.

    rb


         
    rkkwan

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Aug 23, 2002
    Posts: 2623
    From: Houston, TX

      Posted: 2003-10-30 08:46

    Digital connection would be great if the amp is also digital, and there's no D/A and A/D conversion at all through the components, until the final output. It certainly makes little less sense to spend $3000 on a Denon DVD-9000 just to output DVD-A via digital, but that player is expensive also because of its video capability, build, etc.

    And digital output for SACD/DVD-A isn't that expensive anymore. The Pioneer DV-47Ai sells for <$800 at many places.

    -----------------
    -Ray
    SCD-C222ES, Panasonic DVD-CP72, Rotel RCD-961
    B&W 601/2s3, Yamaha RX-V1300, HSU Research VTF-2
    Samsung TXM2796HF & SIR-T151


         
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2003-10-31 13:39

    Even with a DSD interface throught the signal chain it still must be converted into a PWM signal for Digital amplification. Hopefully someday they will be able to eliminate all Digital signal coversions and come up with a conversion free interface like Analog is.

    -Maxx

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    bhealy

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 66
    From: Wash

      Posted: 2003-10-31 16:31

    Wouldn't any digital signal have to be converted to analog since thats how we hear?




       
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2003-11-01 12:39

    I was refering to having a Digital signal that has a single uniform Digital format from disc to amplification with no intraformat conversions as it exists today.

    -Maxx



    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
    threers

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Nov 17, 2003
    Posts: 4
    From: Virginia

      Posted: 2003-11-17 16:06

    I just picked up a demo of recently discontinued XA777ES for a very reasonable price. What an excellent SACD player. If you want good music, get this dedicated audio SACD player and forget the video stuff. You can get a separate DVD player with Faroudja chip that will give excellent pictures and surround sounds for home theater application for a very reasonable price. Why pay thousands for a universal player that "compromises" to do both audio and video?

    With the extra resoloving power of SACD format and 3 DACs per channel to process it, two channel playback sounds much better than that from any CD. This player would be worth it for this alone, but the truly amazing feacture is the 5.1 multichannel playback where there is a dedicated DAC for each channel. You have to hear Pink Floyds' Dark Side of the Moon on this player. You don't need funky stuff to alter your mind, just the music from this SACD will do that for you. Then there is Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. Two channel SACD version sounds better than any CD I have heard, but it's the multichannel version that takes you to the next level (s). The details and clarity that come out (mostly from front three) gives goose bumps. You know those Mastercards ads that enumerates cost of things before showing an event that is "priceless"? This is it. It's truly a moment of epiphany.

    To anwer the topic of this thread, yes, it is that good, especially the multichannel capability. It doesn't mean all SACDs will be good. In fact I am sure some stuff will come out that will be bad. What it means is that the multi channel SACD truly expands the pallet the musicians use to create a work of art. For those works that had originally been mastered with more than stereo inputs, the multi channel give a way to listen to them closer to their original sound. For works yet to come, I am excited about the possiblities.


       
    bhealy

    Rank: Sony Devotee


    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 66
    From: Wash

      Posted: 2003-11-17 20:55

    Your first post Threers?
    Welcome.

    What you describe is pretty typical of most listeners for sacd.

    Were the discs actually easy for you to use?
    Any headaches setting up the sound in 2 or 5.1?

    Any complaints at all?

    Alot of people will re-discover the joy of great sound with this format.

    A lot of people are frustrated with various aspects of dvd-a.

    I think sacd will become the more popular format next year.

    I think right now, it's a wash.


       
    threers

    Rank: Sony Fan


    Joined: Nov 17, 2003
    Posts: 4
    From: Virginia

      Posted: 2003-11-18 09:06

    Thanks for the welcome, bhealy. Yes it was my first post. I did not have any disk problems. The player lets you pick CD, SACD 2 channel or SACD Multi-channel. As for speaker set up, I am using an Outlaw 950 which lets you choose 5.1 anolog bypass with 80 Hz cross over for sub on all speakers. I have full fronts but bookcase center and surrounds. So, this works out fine. I think if you have a good DAC on your player, this is the ideal set up. Outlaw is pretty good but Sony DAC's are much better on this player. For two channel, I just leave it 5.1 bypass mode on the processor and select 2 speakers + sw on XA 777es. I find that augmenting bass with a sub sounds better on my system even though the fronts have big woofers. I am using an old pair of Polk SDAII for fronts and a 5.1 Aperion speakers for center and surrounds for a 7.1 set up. A modest set up but really good sounding in my average size room! It took me 6 months of moving things (wife wouldn't let me put the sub in the middle of the room), recalibrating speakers, and figuring out all the DTS stuff to get it right. I think the most important thing in all this is that regardless of the cost and quality of your speakers, if you get the right set up (i.e., sub placed, polarized and volume matched to blend with the rest of speakers) it will help in appreciating the multi-channel SACD playback.




       
    caddman2

    Rank: Sony Enthusiant


    Joined: Oct 01, 2003
    Posts: 28
    From: fort worth

      Posted: 2003-11-18 10:00

    Welcome Threers. Hope the SACD world is treating you kindly. I too know the "order of magnitude" a disc like Miles Davis, John Coltrane or Clark Terry (the Columbia discs of these artists are single-layer Multichannel). Bitches Bew, In A Silent Way and Kind of Blue put Miles "front and center" in my 7.1 Aperion speakers, I plan to augment them and my 10" sub with "actual" Aperion Audio "full range" floorstanders (2004 product) for left-right channel (9.1?) when Santa stops at my house this year.
    My new DVP-CX777ES is "hard set" for bass cutoff at 120HZ, but I can get lots more UMMMPH if I set front speakers to LARGE and bypass any DSP in the Sony reciever.

    Anybody else doing "subwoofer augmenting"? I know alot of high-end receivers are putting trim-level controls on their remotes for easy one-touch level control (Rotels, Mark-Levinson, McIntosh) of the DB on subs (vs. +6DB Sony-style BASS boost).

    Happy Jazzing.

    -----------------
    Let's Roll!


       
    rkkwan

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Aug 23, 2002
    Posts: 2623
    From: Houston, TX

      Posted: 2003-11-18 10:08

    My experience with my Sony SACD players - currently using C222ES - is to disable all bass management anywhere. There's significantly improvement in sound quality when using the MCh Direct and 2Ch Direct mode on the player.

    You will not get the sub to work this way, though. I run my sub from the pre-outs of my receiver and not LFE. That works well in a 2-Ch system like mine, but not in a multi-channel.

    -----------------
    -Ray
    SCD-C222ES, Panasonic DVD-CP72, Rotel RCD-961
    B&W 601/2s3, Yamaha RX-V1300, HSU Research VTF-2
    Samsung TXM2796HF & SIR-T151


         
    Maxxwire
    Moderator
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Adept


    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 26074
    From: Portland, Oregon - USA

      Posted: 2003-11-18 12:28

    I live less than 10 miles from Aperion Audio and see their represenative frequently, but I had no idea they had a floorstanding full range speaker comming out. It sure pays to hang out at Agoraquest.

    I do think that Aperion makes a very good sounding speaker though. The model 522 is about the best I've heard in the <$300/pair range. At lease that's what they are selling for here in Portland.

    -Maxx

    -----------------
    A Satisfied Sony Fan Since 1974!



    The OCCC Furu-Charged Sony DB 930


         
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