However, when I go to the Color Decoder Test pattern, it has the RGB as such:
Red: +18-22% Green: -8-10% Blue: 0%
Needless to say, lot of red push there.
If I take the AXIS setting below 32 (AXIS is actually a toggle, regardless of a range of values), I get the following:
Red: +2-5% Green: -2-0% Blue: 0%
That certainly fixes the red push, however, it makes the green too strong and instead of having yellow, I get a green-yellow. To make sure it wasn't my eyes playing tricks on me, I watched the Simpsons and there's without any doubt too much green.
Does anyone know what I should do to balance out the yellows? How would I go about adjusting the color levels manually in the service menu and which color needs boosted to fix the yellow? Or should I just set AXIS back how it was and turn down the saturation a bit? I know I can do the latter, but that's more of a "work around" than a fix.
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
From: Schaumburg, IL
Posted: 2004-03-09 20:30
AXIS isn't quite just a simple toggle. Put some color bars up and watch the yellow bar. It shades between yellow and lime-green as you change AXIS. It's the magenta that toggles to lilac at 32. Normally, most sites say to set AXIS to 0. You may also need to reduce GCUT quite a bit. On a little 13FS100, I reduced it from 181 to about 140-150.
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
From: Schaumburg, IL
Posted: 2004-03-11 16:53
I've been playing around with a little 13FS100. I found a few other entries that affect red push.
MTRX made the biggest difference. Setting it to 0, from the original 2, cut red on the Avia color decoder check pattern by nearly 10%. The range is 0-3.
BLLV had a slight effect on red when set to 3, but only when the color temperature was set to Cool. It didn't seem to do anything in Neutral or Warm. The range is 0-3.
Contrast/Picture also has a bit of an effect. On this TV, I have SCON (SubContrast) set to 0, and still have the user Picture cut to 50%. On the other hand, SBRT (SubBrightness) is maxed out at 63, with user Brightness also near 50%. My old 20V80 had a Y-DC to help make the grayscale linear, but the setting doesn't exist in the 13FS100.
Until the replacement for my 30XBR910 comes in (it died less than a day after getting it, no longer turns on, although it degausses), I'm stuck watching this tiny TV!
[ This message was edited by: andyross on 2004-03-11 16:55 ]
I also have (who doesn't?) a red push. With AVIA the red is about 20-25% overpushed. Green is a little under 5-10%. I didn't try setting the AXIS to 0, but I didn't like this too green picture with AXIS at less than 32. I'll try setting it to 0.
However, in order to calibrate the colors, the service manual for 27FS100L suggests (for a technician) to change GCUT and BCUT on white picture and GDRV and BDRV on black (or vice versa). Thus, the RED is the reference - it is not changed.
Anyway, my friend will come this weekend with the professional calibration device. We'll see if it works.
Please share what you learn during the calibration.
Does anyone have a service manual for the kv27fs100L they could share? My email address is (Email Address will not display unless member has 100 posts or is a Premium Member,
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[ This message was edited by: gwizz on 2004-04-04 08:27 ]
Here are the suggestions for red push correction. However, before the results, I need to point some things out.
1. For different temperatures you need different calibrations. For example, the WARM temperature (default in MOVIE mode) is the closest to the NTSC standard (close to 6500 K). The Neutral (in STANDARD mode) is close to 9500 K as is your computer monitor probably. And the COOL (default in SPORT and VIVID modes) is close to 11500 K. Thus, we were calibrating a TV in the MOVIE mode with WARM temperature to get it close to 6500 K.
2. Each TV can have different values and, therefore, these may not be perfect for you.
3. Beware! The settings for Video4 are different from Video1-3. When you are in Video1, for example, and change the values in VP1 menu (like BCUT, GDRV, etc.), the changes for Video2 and Video3 are also changed (they share them). However, Video4 has its own values! So make sure you change these values for Video4 too.
White Balance Adjustment was done according to the manual and using the Color Analyzer and the pure white signal (from a separate generator). (Before doing so, I reset all USER values to the factory default.) First, you change the Brightness and Contrast (Picture) to minimum and correct the colors by changing GCUT and BCUT. When perfect, you increase the Brightness and Contrast to maximum and correct the GDRV and BDRV. Then go back to minimum and correct GCUT and BCUT again since the color reproduction is not perfect again. Repeat until the colors are perfect in min and max brightness and contrast.
So, the values are: RDRV - 64 (this is the default and you don't need to correct it). GDRV - 49 BDRV - 47 RCUT - 120 (default, no change) GCUT - 69 BCUT - 51
This was set with SBRT at 16 (as it says is default in the manual, even though I had 20). The error in the accuracy of the colors was less than 1%.
However, when changed to Sport mode, the blue push is significant. So, as I said, you need to choose the mode in which you are going to watch the TV and calibrate in that mode. You cannot make them ALL perfect. only one. So, I chose MOVIE as it is the closest to NTSC.
P.S. Set the AXIS value to the default 52 as this will undoubtedly change the accuracy. Also, after calibration, the HUE and COLOR in the USER menu do not require any adjustments. They are perfect in their default values. Adjust only Picture and Brightness (with special signals).
[ This message was edited by: ypodolyan on 2004-04-05 10:10 ]
[ This message was edited by: ypodolyan on 2004-04-05 10:17 ]
[ This message was edited by: ypodolyan on 2004-04-06 12:04 ]
Joined: Jan 01, 2004
From: Vancouver, BC Canada
Posted: 2004-04-07 01:33
Excellent post, Gene.
What were your original values for Bcut, Bdrv, Gcut, Gdrv?
Did you make the changes only for Video4 (component) or also for the other inputs - tuner and vid1- vid3? I am wondering if there was much difference in the TV tuner input. Any consistent improvement in skin tones on network TV?
How do you measure the red push with Avia? could you have used it without the calibration equipment to improve the colour balance once you knew which values to adjust?
[ This message was edited by: KirkB on 2004-04-07 01:40 ]
I can't say right now what the original values were (I have them written down at home), but I know for sure that the BCUT and GCUT were almost unchanged in the end (I changed them many time but eventually came to [almost] original ones).
Initially I changed these values for Video2 since the generator was connected to Video2. It was only later that I realized that Video4 has its own settings. I thought they all share them. The only thing I noticed first was too much blue when I watched DVD. I thought DVD outputs too much blue. But then I noticed blue screen with DVD off. So I went to the menu and found out that the values are different for Video4 (I had 189 for BCUT - that's why there was too much blue).
I changed the values to the same ones as in Video1-3 (I don't use Tuner at all). Now it looks good. Dish Network programs are great!
However, I may need to rerun the test with color analyzer, now with the white signal from DVD player (from AVIA disk). This way I would correctly set up Video4 input. However, it already looks good with these settings. Besides, DVD may also output wrong colors and this way you set up correct setting for this particular DVD player.
I will run the color decoder check from AVIA today or tomorrow and let you know what it shows. However, color analyzer is a much more precise tool for this. You cannot correct colors without it as your eye is not that accurate.
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