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    Moderated By: claudio
    Agoraquest Forum Index Television Configuration
      
    Please explain what "scalers and doublers" are used for. Dashboard
    Replies: 6 | Views: 946
    Last Reply: February 13, 2004, 5:03 pm

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    Author Please explain what "scalers and doublers" are used for.
    wmiles

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
    Posts: 114
    From: Noble, OK

      Posted: 2004-02-12 14:48

    I came across several types of equipment utilized in HT setups. It appears to be equipment for higher end devices but I cannot seem to find out what exactly they are used for or why they are used. Any video guys out there care to explain what they are and what they do? Thanks


       


    rkkwan

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Aug 23, 2002
    Posts: 2623
    From: Houston, TX

      Posted: 2004-02-12 17:40

    Line doublers convert a 480i (480-line resolution, interlaced) to 480p (progressive scan). This is basically the same as what progressive scan DVD players do. As well as the internal doubler of most HD montiors. But an outboard doubler usually have higher quality electronics, and this can work with all kinds of signal, not just DVD.

    A scaler also convert the signal to 720p, 1080i, or other resolution. A few DVD players can do this, with certain limitations. Again, an outboard one can often give you better results, but of course at a steep price.

    -----------------
    -Ray
    SCD-C222ES, Panasonic DVD-CP72, Rotel RCD-961
    B&W 601/2s3, Yamaha RX-V1300, HSU Research VTF-2
    Samsung TXM2796HF & SIR-T151


         
    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14278
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2004-02-12 18:29

    rkkwan- I do not believe that converting 480i video to 480p video can be considered line doubling because the total number of lines is 480 in either format.  Its just that it takes 1/30 second to paint 480 lines in the former format and 1/60 second to do so in the latter format.  My KV-36XBR450 converts 480i to 960i, truely doubling the number of lines.  I belive that it also converts 480p to 960i, suggesting that there is no point in configuring my DVD player to provide a 480p output.  When viewing a DVD, the 960i lines are compressed vertically to fit into a 16:9 window, yielding a very impressive picture.

    -----------------
    -John

    Sony A/V System: KDL-55XBR8, BDP-S550 and AVD-LA2500PKG, consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer


       
    rkkwan

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Aug 23, 2002
    Posts: 2623
    From: Houston, TX

      Posted: 2004-02-12 20:07

    jehill - You may be right, but the term "line-doubling" IS generally used for 480i to 480p conversion. And for an outboard "line-doubler", that's the only way it will work as I'm not aware of any consumer TV that will accept a 960i input. Most only take 480i, 480p, 1080i, and hopefully 720p.

    -----------------
    -Ray
    SCD-C222ES, Panasonic DVD-CP72, Rotel RCD-961
    B&W 601/2s3, Yamaha RX-V1300, HSU Research VTF-2
    Samsung TXM2796HF & SIR-T151


         
    wmiles

    Rank: Sony Aficionado


    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
    Posts: 114
    From: Noble, OK

      Posted: 2004-02-13 09:36

    ~rkkwan and jehill ~

    would I be correct to assume that if you have a good quality HDTV then a need for a line doubler and scaler is not necessary? For example, does the KV36XBR800 provide a doubler and/or scaler? Does this model of TV accept HD signals without any need for an external converter? Thanks for your help.


       
    rkkwan

    Rank: Ultimate Sony Reviewer


    Joined: Aug 23, 2002
    Posts: 2623
    From: Houston, TX

      Posted: 2004-02-13 14:52

    Your TV will automatically convert the signal to either 480p or 960i. I'm not an expert at the details, but yes, you don't need a scaler. People who use one are usually real videophile, with very high-end stuff, and many with front projection onto a huge screen.

    On a 36" TV, I'd say the difference would be small and hard to notice.

    -----------------
    -Ray
    SCD-C222ES, Panasonic DVD-CP72, Rotel RCD-961
    B&W 601/2s3, Yamaha RX-V1300, HSU Research VTF-2
    Samsung TXM2796HF & SIR-T151


         
    jehill
    Premium Member

    Rank: Sony Senior Advisor


    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 14278
    From: Sewell, NJ

      Posted: 2004-02-13 17:03

    I am not absolutely positive, but I believe that my 36XBR450 accepts a 1080i input directly without line doubling or scaling.  If its true for the 36XBR450, I am sure that it is true for the 36XBR800.  One improvement in the 36XBR800 over the 36XBR450 is that it accepts a 720p input.  However, it is converted to 1080i.

    Scaling usually applies to the "native" mode of a TV set.  For the 36XBR450 and the 36XBR800 I am fairly certain that the native mode is 960i or 1080i.  The 16:9 window that appears in the 16:9 mode is created by compressing the lines vertically.

    The current crop of display devices, other than CRTs, have a single native mode consisting of a fixed pixel width and height, such as 1024x768, 1365x768 or 1386x788.  Scaling is an absolute necessity for these devices.

    -John
     
    Sony A/V System: KV-36XBR450 FD Trinitron WEGA and AVD-LA2500PKG consisting of AVD-C70ES Super Audio CD/DVD Receiver, 4 SS-LA500ED surround speakers, 1 SS-LAC505ED center channel speaker and 1 SA-WD200 Active Subwoofer

    [ This message was edited by: jehill on 2004-03-15 22:12 ]


       
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