| Topic Review |
jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
 |  Posted: 2008-05-04 16:25
Hi,
just realized I have problem with reading 'RECORDER' part of the NVRAM. I don't know if it is connected to hard drive somehow... (anyway I can read 'ALL' part). Anyway I don't think it is stopping problem.
The one that stops booting the machine is : 0x80af1fb0 (Digital board error code).
I would appreciate if somebody sends me manual for HX717 or send me PM with user/pass to Sony and/or Philips service site (I mean: https://service-asc.sel.sony.com/SonyESI/ or http://www.atyourservice.ce.philips.com).
/jayu
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-06 04:26
Hi there.
This is my first post on this forum, so don't be cruel, please 
The matter is:
I bought non-working RDR-HX717 for few bucks, just to have some spare parts for my RDR-HX710. Unfortunately after getting the cover off I realized that it's quite different machine (philips inside?) and I couldn't use it as spare parts.
Anyway, after I have repaired my RDR-HX710 another way, I just checked what's going on with HX717.
The symptoms are: "STARTING" for several seconds. Then TV receives some kind of signal and display blank (black) screen. It do something like reset and everything repeates infinitely. It doesn't react on any key on main unit nor remote.
After reading some infos on this forum I tried to enter service mode and the observations are:
- when plugin power cord holding PLAY on main unit I see on display some (I suppose) diagnostic messages (no picture on TV). Until yesterday it finished with "FAIL 210002". Then I played a little bit with HDD jumper settings and finally got "PASS" after entering the diagnostic. I realized that someone had already played with HDD replacing it or at least changing jumper positions.
- when plugin power cord holding EJECT and REC on main unit it displays some messages related (I suspect) to firmware upgrade, something like 'DOWNLOAD", "FORCED DL", then ejects and asks for disc (I have no disc with firmware) and finally "ERROR DOWNL".
Anyway I think the problem is with HDD recognition. If somebody has changed the disk, recorder probably sees incompatibilities between disk ids (stored somewhere in non-volatile memory and new one from disk).
So questions to you are:
- is there any option to enter service menu and update disk id there? What is the procedure?
- I would appreciate if anybody is able to send service manual of this model to me.
- The same with firmware - as the last chance I would try to update the firmware (maybe it is crashed for some reason). If somebody has it...
/jayu
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jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 13791
From: Sewell, NJ
 | Posted: 2008-04-06 14:16
Welcome to Agoraquest! Unfortunately, not many of us have access to European model service information.
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-15 18:01
Thank you anyway for reply.
I follow philips way. It seems that inside HX717 is exacly DVDR725H, maybe it is important for somebody.And service manual for HDRW720 is also available and really applicable(look google).
Now I am about to connect to this machine to perform some diagnostic commands (it uses RS232 for service communication).Then I will be sure if this is disk problem only.
Anyway has anybody heard about something like 'Support CD' for RDR series?Unfortunately disk format is nothing that may be recognized byany operating system (including linux) and I will have to format itsomehow. I know that exists something like 'Master DVD' for Philips that may be used for formatting,but I cannot find it anywhere on the web. Maybe somebody has something like that? Maybe something special for Sony version?
/jayu
[ This message was edited by: jayu on 2008-04-15 18:19 ]
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jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 13791
From: Sewell, NJ
| Posted: 2008-04-16 15:53
I suspect that there is a format command some where in the service menu. That command will format the disk as required.
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-17 12:17
Hi,
Unfortunately it's not exacly like that.
There is a command that may be used to transfer some data from DVD to HDD.
Unfortunately, as I have learned from google is:
- one have to have "Master DVD" that contains the "format" data to be transferred to HDD (I'm not quite sure, but it may be even part of firmware/application code)
- one have to know what parameters to give to that command (where from to get it from DVD and where to place it on HDD).
I know some people replaced the disk duplicating it from another machine (dd under linux). Unfortunately I have no access to any HX717 and can't do it.
Anyway I have to connect to HX717 with my PC (unlike other Sony products having Service Menu displayed on TV I have to do some adaptors to connect to it using RS232 - as Philips does).
I don't know if I am able to repair it, but playing with it is quite enjoying
Regards
/jayu
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jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 13791
From: Sewell, NJ
| Posted: 2008-04-17 16:25
That's surprising, since I know that I have read threads on US models that do have a format command.
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-17 18:27
We will see. It would be even better for me to have such format command. Unfortunately - as I said - it seems that this model is Philips inside (I don't mean that only Philips drive or something, but most of boards are exacly the same as in Philips HDRW720 or DVDR725H).
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-20 18:56
Hi ,
I 'm french and i have a rdr-hx-717 i bought on ebay which have the same trouble than yours.
I tested firmware from philips hrw720 but ...Error
At last, i found this page in dutch language (but i don't understand dutch) :
http://www.attic-company.nl/dvdr725h.htm
I haven't found any translation in english/french of this web page.
According to the author, It would be an alimentation trouble...
I wait for your ideas.
The sooner the better..
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Mr_Mod
Sony Fanatic
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 393
From: Singapore
| Posted: 2008-04-20 20:10
try http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-21 03:49
Hi,
Thank you very much for replies.
I'm going to check if this is a problem of power-supply simply by supplying the disk and DVD drive from external power-supply (I have one from my old computer). I will let you know about the results. Anyway - did you try to do it yourself?
In the meantime (yesterday) I did simple interface cable to this machine based on MAX232. Unfortunately it doesn't work as expected yet. What I can see is when I star-up the machine with the cable it doesn't display "STARTING" anymore, but sends something on this interface. As for today it is only crap (however I configured it as for HDRW720 and also tried a lot of different speeds), but I am going to check if Rx/Tx lines are not inverted and do some more investigations.
Of course if I find something I will let you know here
Regards
/jayu
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-21 16:37
Hi,
Latest news are:
1. Power supply at the first sight doesn't show me any problem with voltage levels. It seems quite stable, however I haven't had good equipment to measure it.
2. Connecting DVD drive and HD to external power supply doesn't help.
3. I managed my "service" cable to work with the machine! It seems that no level conversions are required at all. So, I just connected my laptop RS232 directly to pins on machine board (I had to construct the cable anyway, because "mouse cables" or similar don't fit). That was really good experience. My observations are:
- there is Philips definitely inside HX717. It works with nucleus codes and especially answer for one of them is:
DS:> 903
090300:
BE version = 43.02.19. PHILIPS ,VAD8043 ,43021900,5VC0537341288
0200,
Optical unit version = 25.28.79.84.00
Test OK @
- I have found that this machine is not exacly as HDRW720, because some of nucleus codes doesn't work (however most of them work), and by blind typing I found some that are not documented for HDRW720 though.
- I have found next points to consider when repairing the machine - two tests failed:
Busy executing NUC115 5-27
Not all DMAs worked.
FAIL 011502
and
DS:> 2108
210802: Performance failure
Minimum access time = 204 msec
Maximum access time = 204 msec
Average access time = 204 msec
Number of commands below 160 msec = 0
Number of commands between 160 and 200 msec = 0
Number of commands between 200 and 250 msec = 1000
Number of commands above 250 = 0
Error @
The latter one is definitely Hard Disk failure. I am not sure about first one, but DMA may also be HDD dependant.
So, next step is to replace HDD, but first I have to found similar machine with working HDD or confirm what exactly Philips machine it is and have "Master DVD" for it.
What is interesting when playing with nucleus codes is for example - you may change region code of this machine I don't know if it is possible to make it region free, but at least one may change it when necessary.
/jayu
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-22 17:49
Quick news:
after HDD replace all the problems are no longer existing. However I can't format HDD yet, so it is still not functioning.
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 04:59
Hi,
What are the specifications of the new hard drive ? size, partition fat32, no partition ?
Thanks
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-23 05:12
I have bad sectors on old WD disk somewhere at around sector 79400.
So partition table should remain not affected. Unfortunately after connecting it to Linux it doesn't show any partition, what means that there is prioprietary disk organization.
The drive I put into was just for checking if previous errors may be cleared. It was just Seagate 120GB, with some partition table, I don't know even what kind. Anyway the tests I previously performed could be completed with this new hard drive, however it doesn't contain proper data for this recorder. That's for I need this "Master DVD".
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 07:33
Hi,
I've explore my hdd (wd1600bb) with "winhex". I haven't found trace of any known partition like fat32,ntfs... I found the word "Philips" , titles of television programs and "Boot-HTM"
I've made a research on internet with"boot-htm". All my internet researchs leads to xbox...But its filesystem is called FATX and i haven't found this word on the hdd.
One idea should be : make an image of the hdd (by paragon drive backup ; option " process sector by sector") and restore this image on another 160 gb drive...
Searching...
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-23 09:53
Hi,
you may use dd_rescue (or ddrescue) under linux. It makes such a copy and you may set that unrecoverable sectors may be zeroed. This implies that you may do full copy of hard drive, even if it is partially corrupted (my case).
Unfortunately I can't do it right now, because I have only one IDE channel on my motherboard and I would have to connect three devices (IDE disk with linux or CDROM with bootable version, old WD disk and new disk for recorder).
On the other hand I am not quite sure that disk I have was in this recorder from beginning. I could see that somebody (before I bought it) has manipulated it and there is an option that something was done also with data on this disk.
What are the symptoms on your recorder? Do you have also problem with disk? And what is recorder behaviour (STARTING or something else?).
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 10:06
I don't have other 160 gb disc. So, i did one copy (with winhex) of sectors (0-3000000) (about 1gb of sectors)of the 160gb hdd on a 6.4 gb disc (i don't have anything else).
Result : i have always "starting" on startup. nothing else.
i hear the hdd, then the fan stops, then i hear the dvd. Then the hdd stop,then i hear it again... i wonder if there is an alimentation trouble (added to the hdd trouble)
...
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-23 11:45
I have exactly the same. It seems that it has cycles trying to startup again and again.
Have you detected any bad sectors on your hard disk?
Have you connected to service connector on your HX717?
Now I will check if I have something like 'PHILIPS' somewhere in these sectors.
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 11:50
I don't know how to connect service connector .I tried "play" button at startup and the combination button for downloading firmware but nothing else.
I don't know i it has bad sectors (usual software need partition to determine if sectors are bad or not) Which software must i use ?
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-23 12:10
After you tried with "PLAY" button, did it show you any problem, or last message was "PASS"?
To look for bad sectors you may use linux and 'dd'. As input device for this command you set disk from your recorder, as output - /dev/null device. It will try to copy all the device to /dev/null and if it fails somewhere it will show you I/O error.
I checked my disk after connecting to service socket in recorder and executing seek test (attached in this thread).
Then I tried to copy the disk (at least some starting sectors) under linux and it failed.
I've just checked I can't find any "philips" string inside first 4GB of my disk 
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 14:13
The last message on display was "Pass". I will try to copy the first 6gb of the hdd on another one.
I'm under windows Xp (not linux), so i'll find a Windows software to search bad sectors
Perhaps the word "philips" is not in the first 4gb ! the first word i saw was "BOOT-HTM"
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-23 16:55
Hmmm... Have you multiplied sector with sector size? so Address shall be 0x8000000 and 0xC000000 respectively.
I think we have to found somebody with healthy disk
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 17:12
I also tried 0x8000000 and 0xC000000 but 00 00 00 ..........
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-23 16:09
Could you check what do you have at sector 0x40000 and at sector 0x60000 of your HDD?
On my disk I have found only something like HDD_RTR_0F somewhere at first 4GB.
Looking for next steps...
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-23 16:15
I have nothing at these sectors : 00 00 00 ...
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-24 09:24
I asked sony service about price of CD/DVD that allows format HDD. They said it is not available. So all the hope is in Philips service now.
/jayu
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-25 02:40
Some news from investigating HDD content.
There are some regions with static values, for example:
0000000-00001FF with 00..00
0000200-01001FF with ba..ba
0100200-04001FF with 00..00
0400200-0a607FF with ba..ba
and things like that. It seems like some data format on not used disk (to be honest I could read from my recorder that it has recorded only 8 hours on DVDs in its life, so it seems it was almost not used in normal manner. I suspect it was used on exhibitions in shop).
but most interesting thing is, where some "random data" is found...
It starts at 0x1800000 and has something like records starting with "0501..." with length of 0x800 and then some 0000. It repeats every 0x4000. It lasts until 0x3c547FF (over 36MB).
What is important in my case - it is somewhere where my disk has bad sectors (for example sector 78869*512 = 0x2682a00. Maybe these '0000' iside the record were cased by dd_rescue that could not read the sector and filled it with '0000'.
Could you check how it looks on your machine?
and I found that below below 4GB starts structure of data. It looks like sectors of length 0x800 that starts with something like 0000 01ba ... and then something like sequence (or sector) index.
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-25 08:43
I verified : beginning of sectors is 00 00 01 ba 44 00 04 ...(change according the sector but it seems to be an icrementation)
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-25 08:47
Well , i made a research with google "00 00 01 ba 44 00 04 " and it's the beginning of any mpeg2 file ....
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-25 08:59
I haven't found your serie"0501" but i found " 55 10 0F" which could make part of filesystem because i found it betwen most of blocs.Found also "55 10 08"
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-25 17:09
Could you please send me first 44MBytes of your disk (until 2C01000), compressed and splitted to 5M each to jayu1@wp.pl? Is it feasible for you? Then I would check if we have the same in the same place, what means - a part of disk format. Maybe we could combine one from two.
In the meantime I have checked that first block of mpeg2 starts at 2C00000. So I assume everything we have below this address is some kind of disk format/header.
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-26 12:30
Well, With WinHex ,a backup from sector 0 to 90121 (which correspond to your offset) is 44 mb sized; but there is a compression option which leads to ... 203 Kb
In point of fact, i have almost of the beginning of the hdd which contains 00 00 ... perhaps because of bad clusters.
If you want , i can send you it or i can extend the backup...
you can contac me at cryptaweb(at) hotmail .fr
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-04-26 12:34
I have the word "ROOT" at sector 525313 (offset 0010080200)
(nothing until
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-27 13:56
I think we have two quite different disks. I assume my disk is not from HX717, because I am sure somebody did something with this disk before (removed from recorded, changed jumpers).
Now I am going to check if my recorder will work with disk created with your dump.
/jayu
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-04-27 15:39
No, it doesn't
We have to get "Master DVD" for this kind of recorders or at least working disk.
I will let you know if I have anything.
/jayu
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Mr_Mod
Sony Fanatic
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 393
From: Singapore
| Posted: 2008-05-05 00:18
The US Sony site would be of no use, there is no listing there for that model, its listed as a European model and hence someone with either ORISS or IBISS access
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-05-05 11:23
Hi,
You perhaps can find anything at http://www.eserviceinfo.com/newfiles/new_0.html
paulclaude
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-05-05 11:48
Look at this : http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=24210
(hdrw720 philips service manual)
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-05-05 13:34
Yes,
these files I have already seen. I'm looking for "Master DVD" there or something like training manual for recorder with hard disks. This would be helpful to detect what is the origin of the problem 0x80af1fb0.
By the way, have you connected with interface cable to this recorder?
/jayu
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paulclaude
Sony Buff
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 16
From:
| Posted: 2008-05-06 13:43
hi,
take a look at http://www.kelvyn.nl/hdr1000/
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-05-06 15:05
that's great
Anyway in case of your disk the recorder didn't complained anything about partition table as it did for my disk. So it seems you have proper partition table, but I have to figure out where it is to look if you have those files somewhere there.
Regards
/jayu
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2008-06-05 17:06
Hi,
just to summarize.
The problem with "STARTING" messages was caused by wrong HDD data in two cases - mine and Paul-Claude's. It may happen that problem appears when recorder is unplugged during recording.
To format new HDD one has to have MasterDVD for this model (don't try with MasterDVD for DVDR725H from Philips - it doesn't work) and RS interface to the recorder. Don't ask me about MasterDVD for this Sony - I don't have it.
The solution I used was a copy from working disk (Thanks to Paul-Claude and a guy from my country we could merge two faulty disks into one, working).
To cut your pain off I have to say that it should be enough just to make a copy of sectors 0x80001 - 0x84001. So if you find somebody with working disk - you may even get these sectors by mail (8MB not packed size).
I'm writing this post just for people who already gave away.
I couldn't find so much informations on the net according to this problem, so I hope it will help somebody.
/jayu
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Holger007
Sony Fan
Joined: Oct 23, 2008
Posts: 1
From: Denmark
 | Posted: 2008-10-25 03:01
Hi JAYU and others who can help with "RDR-HX717"
Now, after 5 months, did you find the Firmware necessary for RDR-HX717?
I am asking because i have exactly the same problem with my HX717. The remute is not working. I can make the dvd "PASS" as you described earlier. I just need the Firmware or the necessary piece from the sectors you described.
Do you still have a copy from the harddisk? I would be very happy!
I dont know hove i can contakt you i these forum?
But Yoy can try this:
aage-lind"stofanet.dk
(just place @ and remove ")
Holger007
[ This message was edited by: Holger007 on 2008-10-26 09:38 ]
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ICEe
Sony Fan
Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 2
From: Europe
| Posted: 2009-11-16 16:26
hello jayu,
it seems that i have the same failure as you had with your RDR-HX717.
do you already have a image of sectors 0x80001 - 0x84001?
please write back if you are already reading in this forum.
thx
ICEe
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jayu
Sony Enthusiant
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 26
From: Poland
| Posted: 2009-12-07 07:16
Hi,
You have to provide me you email address somehow.
/jayu
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ICEe
Sony Fan
Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 2
From: Europe
| Posted: 2010-03-28 16:17
oh, cool...
I didn't reckon with an answer of you! Last time I had less time because of my diploma thesis.
My mailing adress is ****(at)**.at
please contact me!
thanks
ICEe
[ This message was edited by: ICEe on 2010-04-01 15:23 ]
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repro21
Sony Fan
Joined: May 25, 2012
Posts: 1
From: Austria
| Posted: 2012-05-25 07:17
dear jayu or ICEe
is it possible that you send me the file?? please its very important for me
my email mcgrex AT gmail DOT com
[ This message was edited by: repro21 on 2012-05-25 07:18 ]
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spothuri
Sony Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2012
Posts: 1
From: India
| Posted: 2012-07-20 01:49
Hi jayu or ICEe (or anybody),
I have same issue with my Philips DVDR7300H.
Please send me 8 MB data required, if anybody has it.
My email address is psrbulkATyahooDOTcom
Thanks
Srini
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