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Agoraquest • View topic - Pyramid cones for me or no?

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View topic - Pyramid cones for me or no?

Pyramid cones for me or no?

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by dontsleep33 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:58 am

My minimalist system which consists of only a Sony TA-N55ES power amp,
Sony DVP-NS710H DVD player with two Athena ASB2 bookshelf speakers are mounted on a concrete bar with a marble top is my main 2ch listening system.Blue Jeans 12 gauge speaker cables and analog interconnects with DIY Power cord upgrades soldered directly into the board on the dvd player and amp as well.Great sound!
Now there is no vibration up on that bar there trust me!if there is it is minimal.Having said that,with that foundation do you think I could use these cones with my equipment to further improve resonance tuning?On which components and how,where?Or would they be detrimental?Also are there DIY stuff that I could use or make in replacement of these cones in the meantime before I buy them?
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by Maxxwire » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:06 pm

dontsleep- Resonance Tuning is not only different from System to System but it is different from piece to piece within each Audio System so the key to success is experimentation.

For example on my speakers I first mounted them om 3/4" Granite slabs as an Energy Sink with no big change in the way they sounded. I then Decoupled the Granite Slabs with hybrid Sorbothane feet and the speakers sounded somewhat better. Over a year later I put a set of 3 BDR Mk 3 Cones under each speaker and those 35 year old speakers never sounded so good! I mean I could hardly believe that they were the same speakers they sounded so much better.


I have had other great Resonance Tuning successes like Sorbothane under each of the Digital Processors and DAC. I tried replacing the Sorbothane Decoupling with BDR Cones for Rigid coupling in the Digital front end and it sounded absolutely horrible as the sound became very etched and analytical.

I get by far the best sound from my Power Amp when it sits on a set of 3 BDR Mk 3 Cones atop a huge slab of Granite on the top shelf of my Salamander Archetype 5 equipment rack.

There's just no silver bullet when it comes to Resonance Tuning. You can get Sorbothane Decoupling feet fairly cheap. Rigid Coupling Cones come in many varieties and I've tried aluminum, brass, steel and the Carbon Fiber BDR Cones and none of them were any where near as effective as the BDR Cones because of their unique resonance characteristics.

All I can say is that careful Resonance Tuning can improve the sound quality of your Audio System on the same level as upgrading equipment would only it takes a lot of experimentation which does take time to get it just right, but if you want an $XX,XXX sound from $X,XXX worth of Audio equipment this is definitely the way to do it!

~Maxx~


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by dontsleep33 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:50 am

Ok.Great sounds the wife will be having a heart attack soon lol!Buy the way I really appreciate the way you take the time and explain your posts.My responses are usually very short because you answer all the questions lol! Don't think your time was wasted though.
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by Maxxwire » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:09 pm



dontsleep- To lower your wife's stress levels somewhat there are BDR Cones with slight cosmetic flaws that are sold at a discount.

Much to their dismay many Audio enthusiasts overlook the sonic benefits Resonance Tuning and miss out on enjoying the full performance levels of the sizable investment in the Audio equipment and wiring that they have already made. A case in point was after I installed the Furutech GTX Pure Copper Outlet I discovered the latent previously unheard benefits of Resonance Tuning that I had done 5 years earlier that had been covered up by a poor quality outlet!

When combined with all of the AC Power delivery upgrades you have made you should be able to derive a larger share of the benefits of Resonance Tuning than in an Audio System with an as yet unimproved AC Power Delivery System as both of these areas of improvement effect and enhance one another.

For a great source of inexpensive Sorbothane Decoupling Feet you might check out The Tweakshop. For only $5 each they can create improvements in sound quality that would cost $100's or even $1,000's to replicate with equipment and wiring upgrades alone!

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by parney » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:13 pm

Granite may not be the best thing to put your speakers or audio gear on.Granite is a natural source of radiation, like most natural stones. However, some granites have been reported to have higher radioactivity thereby raising some concerns about their safety.Radiation describes a process in which energetic particles or waves travel through a medium or space.Radiation has an electric and magnetic field component which oscillate in phase perpendicular to each other and to the direction of energy propagation. Electromagnetic radiation is classified into types according to the frequency of the wave.Thus interfering with the sound waves you want to enjoy from your system.Just a thought not sure if you guys have heard of this but I've read some articles on this subject.
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by parney » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:23 pm

As far the Pyramid cones I would say they can make a difference as I seen in a demo at an audio store a while back.
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by Maxxwire » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:41 pm


On 2010-12-14 19:13, parney wrote:
Granite may not be the best thing to put your speakers or audio gear on.Granite is a natural source of radiation, like most natural stones. However, some granites have been reported to have higher radioactivity thereby raising some concerns about their safety.



Parney- How would you rate the risk of having two 9" X 20" pieces of Granite as energy sinks for speakers with any of the millions of people who spend all day inside buildings that have Granite walls and floors that they actually come in contact with? If all these people are in true danger then why hasn't the Federal Government ordered all Granite buildings destroyed?



It sounds as though the warnings about Granite being dangerously radioactive have been proven alarmist and scientifically untrue in lab testing...

From Wikipedia- A study of granite countertops was done in November 2008 by National Health and Engineering Inc of USA, and found that all of the 39 full size granite slabs that were measured for the study showed radiation levels well below the European Union safety standards (section 4.1.1.1 of the National Health and Engineering study) and radon emission levels well below the average outdoor radon concentrations in the US

Sorry to question you, but I grew up during a time where these days they say that nearly everything we did should have killed us yet we will most likely live longer than our pampered and protected children will.

~Maxx~


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by parney » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:08 pm

Sorry Maxxwire Im not trying to say were all going to die if we have a slab of granite in our house I should have worded my post better. I live in northern Canada and am surrounded by tons of this granite and my buddy acctually owns and operates a granite business.Here is a link you might find interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hligNicCGRc
                            Now if you follow my line of thinking what I'm trying to say is that you might be better off using a slab of concrete as opposed to granite ,not because it will harm you but because the radiation will effect the sound quality.As far as the goverments protecting us Asbestos became increasingly popular among manufacturers and builders in the late 19th century because of its sound absorption, average tensile strength, and its resistance to heat, electrical and chemical damage.It infact killed afew people and they don't use it here anymore like they used to in schools goverment buldings homes ect.  Just some food for thought.
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by Maxxwire » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:49 pm


On 2010-12-14 23:08, parney wrote:
Now if you follow my line of thinking what I'm trying to say is that you might be better off using a slab of concrete as opposed to granite ,not because it will harm you but because the radiation will effect the sound quality.



I didn't use 5/8" thick slabs of Granite under my Stereo speakers and Power Amp as the first option but after many listening experiments using other materials such as solid wood, Medium Density Fiberboard, glass and marble.

The structure of Granite gives it a resonance frequency that made the equipment sound particularly good especially when Carbon Fiber BDR Cones were used as rigid coupling where all other alternative materials that I tried caused the sound of the equipment to suffer except for the Hybrid Tube/FET Preamp which sounds best on a Townshend Seismic Sink pneumatic decoupling device.





This is the Granite slab that my Vacuum Tube Power Amp with its BDR Cones sat upon for almost 6 years. Of the many Resonance Tuning combinations I've tried including Sorbothane Feet on glass, floating the Amp on inner tubes and bags of air even Aluminum and Brass cones on MDF and nothing sounded nearly so good as this slab of Granite which I bought for $5 and the Carbon Fiber BDR Cones.

  

Different equipment responds to different kinds of Resonance Tuning and only experimentation can determine the best method. This is the Townshend Seismic Sink that was once used in their award winning $10,000 Turntable which has become an individuated piece and this one now sits on a set of BRD Cones with a second set f BDR Cones coupling the Hybrid Tube/FET Preamp to it.  When the air pressure inside the Seismic Sink is adjusted properly the Preamp sounds its very best.

  

The Digital front end uses two different types of Sorbothane feet, is fine tuned with a precisely calibrated set of weights and sets here on its own Granite mini-slab. This particular instance of Resonance Tuning dialed in the sound of the IS Bus Digital processors and DAC with their fine Silver wiring so precisely that the speed of the attack transients can be controlled with the amount if weight atop the visco-elastic decoupled equipment.

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by mykyll2727 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:15 am

 For those interested in carbon fiber cones I found some that have worked extremely well for me in certain places. They are by Composite Products and can be purchased at Music Direct. I'm a huge fan of BDR's stuff and use it extensively but I found these to work even better in some instances. I just did a price check and they have gone up in price from when I bought mine back in '08 early '09. Then the unthreaded cones were $25 ea. and the 1/4 20 threaded were $35. I felt $10 extra was alot just for a hole drilled in them. Now both types are $35. They also make a little disc which surprised me at how well they worked and they were $20 ea. Now they're $30. Sign of the times I guess. But still they're fairly reasonable considering the price of some cones.

 BDR has developed a new formula and has a new line of products out. One person I know has reported to me that they are an improvement over the old stuff. Given how much I love the old stuff at some point I'll have to give the new items a try._mykl
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