[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/viewtopic.php on line 35: Use of undefined constant topic - assumed 'topic' (this will throw an Error in a future version of PHP)
Agoraquest • View topic - Direct DSD playback of multi-channel SACDs!

        Advanced search
It is currently Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:37 pm
Please Login or Register to take advantage of all of our forum benefits.

View topic - Direct DSD playback of multi-channel SACDs!

Direct DSD playback of multi-channel SACDs!

This forum addresses questions on installation, configuration and troubleshooting you might encounter with your Sony MD/CD/SACD.

Moderator: jttar

by jehill » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:44 pm

There has been a lot of discussion regarding the different methods of connecting a SACD player to a receiver for multi-channel playback, i.e.  iLink, HDMI and multi-channel analog.  However, none of these methods can beat direct DSD connections.  How may it be done you ask?  Use a receiver that has the SACD player built-in, such as the AVD-C70ES that I am using.  I know, that's not much help if you have a receiver and a separate SACD player.  What's unique about the AVD-C70ES is that it is 100% digital.  The DSD outputs of the player are passed directly to the S-Master controlled digital amps.

I rarely listen to music anymore using the AVD-C70ES.  It is used almost exclusively with my KDL-XBR8 TV.  In fact, all of my HDMI sources are connected to the TV so that the AVD-C70ES is always in TV/SAT.  However, every once in a while I have to sit down and listen to my favorite multi-channel SCAD, JOHANN SEBASTIOAN BACH THE FOUR GREAT TOCCATAS AND FUGUES THE FOUR ANTIPHONAL ORGANS OF THE CATHEDRAL OF FREIBURG PLAYED SIMULTANEOUSLY BY E. POWER BIGGS.  It allows me to recall what a great system I have!
User avatar
jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Sony Senior Advisor
 
Posts: 14207
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Sewell, NJ

by jeromelang » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:33 pm

no surprise you like the c70es so much.

1-box systems will always out perform 2-box systems when the digital interface between them is HDMI.







-----------------
Main System: Sources Sony SCD-1, Michell Gyro SE, SME V, Lyra Skala. Amplifiers Pass Lab Aleph Ono, Pass X2.5, Pass X350. Speakers Sony SS-M9ED. Cables Straightwire Crescendo interconnects, double run speaker cables.

jeromelang
Sony Enthusiast
Sony Enthusiast
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Marketing Executive

by scott1019 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:58 pm

With my frustrations trying to get HDMI to work properly for Audio, I am wondering if a "receiver with a DVD player" would work better... Something to consider for sure.
scott1019
Sony Aficionado
Sony Aficionado
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: USA>>Ohio

by jehill » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:29 am



The downsides of my AVD-C70ES are that 1) power rating is 120W/CH with 6, not 8 ohm loads, 2) only digital inputs are one coaxial and two optical (only the TV/SAT optical input accepts Dolby Digital 5.1) and 3) since it is circa 2002, there is no HDMI video output.  Since my speakers are all 8 ohm, I have to crank the volume all the way up to get close to the desired listening level when playing my favorite SACDs.
User avatar
jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Sony Senior Advisor
 
Posts: 14207
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Sewell, NJ

by scott1019 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:34 pm

My speakers are 102 Db efficient so I should be fine
scott1019
Sony Aficionado
Sony Aficionado
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: USA>>Ohio

by mykyll2727 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:38 pm


On 2011-09-12 18:34, scott1019 wrote:
My speakers are 102 Db efficient so I should be fine



Nice, very nice!!! I remember some years ago reading about the sonic advantages of using very efficient speakers especially with fairly high powered amps. Mainly to attain more life-like dynamics and details. My own experiences have caused me to become a believer of that philosophy. Unfortunately now adays very few "modern" speaker makers make highly sensitive speakers. It's one of the reasons I chose a rather high-powered amp.
mykyll2727
Sony Fanatic
Sony Fanatic
 
Posts: 4144
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Las Vegas

by scott1019 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:07 am

Yes, in fact "high-powered" amps sound much better on my speakers than low powered ones. The trick is finding the right pre-amp since their high-efficiency brings out any error in your system. Most alter the sound in some way. The best so far being the Sony TA-E80ES.

I regrettably just sold my Classe's despite the Classe Seventy being the best sounding amp I have EVER used! Unfortunately I couldn't sell the pre-amp without the amp as they were a matching pair. Finding a pre-amp that works with a high gain amp without attenuation is a very difficult task indeed. I may need to get something designed for Pro-audio.

Now I am actively seeking out another Classe Seventy or something comparable... there may even be better ones so I am keeping an open mind about what amp to get. I also have an Ultra-Linear tube amp to run my 12" Full Range Alnico drivers by a company called Audio Nirvana. For that amp I don't need a separate pre-amp as the amp has attenuation and several inputs.

Modern speakers suffer from the 4 D's, Dead Dull, Dark, and Distant. Modern crossovers and inefficient drivers with very flat frequency response have sucked all the life out of the music. In fact, most crossover designs are soo complex that it doesn't even matter what gear you use up-stream which makes me wonder why people are spending so much on that gear.

Modern gear, with a few exceptions, sound too bright on my speakers, and its because i have a very simple capacitor ran to the high frequency driver of my PAudio coaxial speakers. The designers assume you have 2nd order filtering in your speakers and are adding as much information as they can to get past this. Whether it be excessive EQing or recording the albums themselves with more loudness.

This link explains this very well, and I am sure there are other sites that do a much better job.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122114058

A properly mastered album played on my 508ESD CD player sent directly to my Classe Seventy amp via its variable output with my own interconnects without any pre-amp, power conditioning, or other "magic" devices, with standard 16 guage multi-stranded copper speaker cables to my 12" Paudios in my own custom cabinets has resulted in the best sound I have ever heard at my home or any other. Plugged into a Furman power strip and a Leviton hospital grade outlet.

Amp has a Signal power cable and CD Player has an upgraded cord and plug. Other than that no trickery.

My system with the Audio Nirvanas and Ultralinear tube amp has a higher level of refinement, but don't have the dynamics or sheer power of the PAudios. You get tossed back into your seat! Having both is a delight beyond anything I could have ever thought possible when I first started playing with speakers 5-6 years ago. I can honestly say that it really can't get much better... now its time to focus on integrating everything into an easy to use system and get as much quality material I can get my hands on.

scott1019
Sony Aficionado
Sony Aficionado
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: USA>>Ohio

by jehill » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:26 am


On 2011-09-12 18:34, scott1019 wrote:
My speakers are 102 Db efficient so I should be fine
Good point!  My speakers have only an 87 dB sensitivity (dB/W/m).  My speakers require 32 x more power than yours for the same sound level!  What I really should do is replace my speakers.

User avatar
jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Sony Senior Advisor
 
Posts: 14207
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Sewell, NJ

by jehill » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:49 am

I suspect that the Classe Seventy has an extremely low output impedance and extremely high damping factor, right?  Essentially, it is an extremely linear and powerfull OP AMP, right?  I suspect that there is far more headroom than you would ever need.  Aren't Classe amps more commonly used for extremely inefficient speakers?
User avatar
jehill
Sony Senior Advisor
Sony Senior Advisor
 
Posts: 14207
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Sewell, NJ

by scott1019 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:00 am


On 2011-09-13 11:49, jehill wrote:
I suspect that the Classe Seventy has an extremely low output impedance and extremely high damping factor, right?  Essentially, it is an extremely linear and powerfull OP AMP, right?  I suspect that there is far more headroom than you would ever need.  Aren't Classe amps more commonly used for extremely inefficient speakers?


Yes sir!   They are meant to be mated with speakers like B & W, but I have found that this extra dynamic headroom is what makes it very special on my speakers.   Being low impedance with a high damping factor makes it very difficult to pair with a pre-amp, even ones from the same company, especially with my efficient speakers without some sort of attenuation between the pre-amp and amp.   You also need speakers with a high power rating since most normal efficient speakers would eventually be toast with an amp like this.  

There have been times when the listening volume is at ~80 Db and almost instantly goes past 105 Db.  Its so effortless and immediate and you literally get tossed back into your seat.   Vocals are the most amazing part of this.  You can "hear" the singer getting closer to the mic as if the gain was momentarily turned up.   Its just flat out remarkable.  The bass notes hit you in the chest as if you are at a live concert.   Remember for most of my listening the level is below 80 Db,.  The high efficiency of the driver allows it to almost instantly reacts to any subtle change in the music and every subtle nuance is easily recognizable.  

I am now seeking a very similar amp since I regrettably sold the pair.   No one wanted just the pre-amp .   It was meant to be a matching pair and I have no regrets.   At least I now know what works with my speakers and what doesn't.    

I couldn't use this amp with my Nirvana's.

scott1019
Sony Aficionado
Sony Aficionado
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: USA>>Ohio

Next

Return to MD/CD/SACD

cron